Newbie looking for a BP revolver. Questions

Rambler · May 8, 2020

Threeband said:
Even if I practiced a lot, I can't see swapping cylinders like that on an unmodified Remington. It takes a lot of fidgeting because the hand, the bolt, and the hammer all get involved at different moments. I have to make several adjustments in the mammer position while rotating and pushing the cylinder.

I suspect that both the hand and the locking bolt were removed from the movie gun. It would also help to remove the nose of the hammer and seriously polish the cylinder pin.

This makes cylinder swapping on Remingtons much easier and faster. It replaces the loading lever. It is intended to be used with cartridge conversion cylinders on unmodified (no loading gate) frames. One would have to use a loading stand/tool to load BP cylinders.

https://www.howellarms.com/parts/1858-remington-cylinder-pin-quick-release

Threeband · May 8, 2020

So who makes the best conversion cylinder to go with that?
I have an old Navy Arms Shooter Model Remington from years ago, the premium model with gain twist that goes for premium prices. Very low round count, haven't shot it in many years.

Would a good conversion cylinder require fitting? I understand this Shooter Model has a slightly larger (more authentic) frame. Does anyone make a cylinder for this specific model?

John from MD · May 8, 2020

On the older guns like yours, it is hit or miss if it will require fitting. The guns produced since the mid nineties have been pretty good as far as dropping in cylinders. I have Howells and Kirst and didn't have any problems with either. I did try to drop one in on an old Pietta and I had to spend a couple hours fitting the hand and bolt to get it to work.

Mike OTDP · May 8, 2020

Sirex said:
Eventually, after buying a 1858 and 1851, I'd like to buy an actual antique, real 1858 Remingon.

Bring money. A half-decent original will run well over $1K. But they will shoot. My own original Remingtons will comfortably hold ~1 inch at 25 yards.

Rambler · May 8, 2020

The Howell cylinders require removal from the frame to reload. The firing pins are contained in a separate piece which forms the rounded rear of the cylinder.
Kirst also makes some cylinders which require removal. However, they also make conversions which have a gated rear portion which allows cartridge loading without cylinder removal. Some (all?) frames require metal removal to make room for the cartridge to clear the frame at the primer cutout. The fitting is not too difficult. But, the cylinder manufacturers also offer fitting and refinishing.

John from MD · May 8, 2020

If you modify the recoil plate to allow loading with the loading gate, BATF says it is a firearm from then on. I guess that is due to Taylors selling factory made conversions.

Rambler · May 9, 2020

John from MD said:
If you modify the recoil plate to allow loading with the loading gate, BATF says it is a firearm from then on. I guess that is due to Taylors selling factory made conversions.

That is my understanding as well. Once the frame is modified to allow loading, it is a firearm. It can still be used with the black powder cylinder though.
The vendors offering conversion installation ship it back to you via your local FFL.

I did a little more inter-webbing and it turns out that Howell now also makes a conversion that utilizes a loading gate. In other words, cartridges can be loaded without removing the cylinder. The Kirst loading gate version allows the rear piece which contains the gate to "float" on the cylinder pin. The Howell is a little more complicated to install. There is a drilling and tapping fixture that is used to make the holes to fasten the rear portion to the frame. Both Howell and Kirst make ejectors for the conversions. One thing to bear in mind is that the .38 cal BP barrels are oversize for .38 spl but fine for .38 Colt (heeled bullet). They recommend lining the barrel for .38 spl.

The .44 BP barrel bore is sized correctly for .45 Colt or .45 ACP

John from MD · May 9, 2020

Since you brought up the oversized 1851 barrel. :innocent0

Last year I had a hard time finding .38 HBWC in stock - anywhere. So I decided to go with Berrys plated HBWC. BAD MOVE. The plating plus a harder lead alloy would not obdurate in the bore using the low pressure loads you need to safely shoot Colt frames.

Bullseye shooters were the biggest user of this bullet and Bulleseye is slowly dying. I'm thinking that bullet manufacturers are making short yearly runs for this bullets and, when they are gone, you have to wait till next year.

What a bitch as I like shooting my particular 1851 a lot. Arthritis keeps me from shooting BP on the colder days so that is when I use the cartridge conversion. I guess next time I buy, if I find any, I will have to stock up.

Sirex · May 11, 2020

What kind of frame is typically under a nickel plated gun, brass or steel? Thx

John from MD · May 12, 2020

Brass is easier and cheaper to plate than steel so they are usually brass.

Sirex · May 12, 2020

John from MD said:
Brass is easier and cheaper to plate than steel so they are usually brass.

Ok, thanks

Sirex · May 23, 2020

Update!!!!

I got my very first BP revolver today!

Met up with 6Den today, and want to extend a big thank you to him. Picked up a Navy Arms Uberti 1858 revolver with a bunch of supplies to get me rolling into the black powder hobby. He also graciously invited me to trap shoot with him, and I was, well, pretty rusty. The only things safe from me at the range were the clay birds. But big thank you again to 6Den, not only for the revolver, but taking the time to tell me about it, and educate me on how to load, clean, and care for the revolver. This revolver is beautiful. A whole different game from regular semi auto modern pistols. Like having a classic car, it's really cool. I am excited to make some smoke soon.

6Den · May 24, 2020

Sirex, you are very welcome my friend. It was a pleasure to meet you, talk, and shoot a little. I’m glad you’re pleased with the 1858 and I hope it will give you many years of fun. Keep in touch and report back with your BP adventures!

RepublicOfFranklin · May 25, 2020

That one is a real beauty! Can’t get prettier than the classic Navy Arms repros.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Sirex · May 25, 2020

RepublicOfFranklin said:
That one is a real beauty! Can’t get prettier than the classic Navy Arms repros.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

It really is a beautiful gun. I can't get over how hefty and solid it feels versus modern handguns. If I ran out of ammo, I could club some bandit to death with it.

hodgepodge · May 29, 2020

If you ever want to skin that smoke wagon, look into Cowboy Action Shooting.

Sirex · Jun 5, 2020

I haven't even shot this thing yet, and the bug bit me. I ordered another BP

54rndball · Jun 11, 2020

Use the standard powder measure supplied with the powder flask. DO NOT add extra powder to the cylinders. This can lead to more than one cylinder firing at the same time and parts of the revolver falling off.

Pensfaninmd · Jun 12, 2020

hodgepodge said:
If you ever want to skin that smoke wagon, look into Cowboy Action Shooting.

I watched some YouTube videos on Cowboy action shooting and thought most shooters were using modern cartridges not cap and ball. I want to watch one in person soon. I have two BP pistols, Remington New Army and a 1960 Army. One has a conversion cylinder one is percussion. I would need a shotgun and a lever action PCC yet to try it.. pretty expensive to start..

Horseman308 · Jun 15, 2020

Pensfaninmd said:
I watched some YouTube videos on Cowboy action shooting and thought most shooters were using modern cartridges not cap and ball. I want to watch one in person soon. I have two BP pistols, Remington New Army and a 1960 Army. One has a conversion cylinder one is percussion. I would need a shotgun and a lever action PCC yet to try it.. pretty expensive to start..

Cowboy action is an absolute blast (no pun intended), but you're right; it's pretty expensive.

There are classes for BP cap and ball, however. It's not nearly as common, but it is somewhat cheaper. Still gotta get the lever-gun and scatter gun, though.

Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk

Newbie looking for a BP revolver. Questions

The #1 community for Gun Owners of the Northeast

Member Benefits:

Doing the best with the worst.

The M1 Does My Talking

American Patriot

Ultimate Member

Doing the best with the worst.

American Patriot

Doing the best with the worst.

American Patriot

Powered by natural gas

American Patriot

Powered by natural gas

Powered by natural gas

Attachments

Active Member

Ultimate Member

Powered by natural gas

Senior Member (Gold)

Powered by natural gas

take to the hills

Ultimate Member

Active Member

Users who are viewing this thread

Log in

Forum statistics