Chassepot needle rifle: Better than s...shooting

SlowShooter · May 25, 2017

I thought I am done with this thread. Now I have found some more things to add on.

Last winter, I made a full box of paper ammos (50rds) but I found no opportunity to bring the Chassepot out to the range. I am having too much fun with the Garand and the Cetme lately. Because of this I accidently aged the paper ammos for 6 months.

Last weekend, I took the rifle out and shot 15 rounds (It took me 2 Hrs to complete this). All 15 shots fired nicely and hit intended target at 100 yrds. I did miss a few first shots at the steel gong due to my brain fart. I forgot the rifle's POA on the target.

I will shoot another batch of 10 or 15 next winter to test the longevity of my homemade ammos. The followups will be every 6 month until the whole box emptied.

Sofar I don't see any sight that the taped ammos are disintegrated by themself. Also the rubber seal is still intact and shown no wear and tear.

There was a lesson learned last shooting. When I fired the first shot. I got a full face of black powder (I did not know this until the end of the day). The receiver and the chamber were too clean and the seal did not function properly. I felt some gas shot back to my face when I pulled the trigger ( This also proves that wearing protective glasses is a must around here) . This did not happened again for the rest of the day. When I came home and cleaned the rifle, I found that the piece of electric tape I used to add to the thickness of the rubber hose was missing. This proves that the electric tape is one of the parts of the rifle I don't want to live without.

I am planning to buy the bullet molds for the Chassepot and the Dreyse before they are gone for good. Thanks Blacksmith 101 for the link.

iH8DemLibz · May 25, 2017

I've never seen roll-yer-own cartridges before.

Very cool and impressive.

Getting old guns shooting again is great fun.

SlowShooter · May 25, 2017

iH8DemLibz said:
I've never seen roll-yer-own cartridges before.

Very cool and impressive.

Getting old guns shooting again is great fun.

It's better then sex!

SlowShooter · Nov 10, 2018

Hello everyone,

On the 4th of November, I brought my Chassepot out to do the 2 YEAR OLD AMMO TEST. The test was conducted at Cresap Rifle Range. The Facility was clean, very organized and nicely operated. There was an army of range officers there and everyone was processional and helpful, especially Mr. Paul White.

I fired 20 shots. 18 shots went bang, 2 shots failed to ignite. Among the 18, there were 3 or 4 shots got hang –fire. The very 1st successful shot of the day was so slow to fire; I jerked the rifle before the bullet left the muzzle and that sent it north off the paper. The second shot I aimed at 6 o’clock and the bullet landed 4” off the center; so the rest of the day, I adjusted my Kentucky windage to 3 inches to the right and the group started to form near center of the 6” bulls-eye (at 50 yard). (Note the vertical spread. It is the results of hang-fire and shoot without rear bag.)

During the shooting session, I felt light gas leaking to the rear every single shot but it was not enough for me to replace the rubber obturator/gas shield. I keep spare needle and obturator with the gun at all time. At the end of the day, my face was darkening with black powder. From now on, I will replace the obturator every 50 shot. It’s very cheap and easy to get anyway.
The home made needle is still intact after 80 shorts. By inspection, I think it will last a couple hundred rounds.

After a week thinking about the 2 failures, I found 2 factors could be the culprits. 1.) The cartridge was to short (see the attached pictures). 2.) The clean chamber. I clean the chamber with moose milk (Ballistol mix) after every 5 shots and this does not help to hold the cartridge in place. If it was the 3rd, 4th or 5th of the group it will ignite without issue with the dirty chamber.

I will do the last test next fall (2019) to prove my Easy made Chassepot Cartridge will last at least 3 years in storage.

Take care everyone!

Threeband · Nov 10, 2018

Vive le Fusil Chassepot!

Blacksmith101 · Nov 10, 2018

Thank you for the update this has been a very interesting project to follow.

A couple of questions.

Were the cartridges short when originally made or did they shrink for some reason while in storage?

Have you established a minimum and/or maximum cartridge length for your particular rifle?

SlowShooter · Nov 10, 2018

This is the answer for Blacksmith101:

The short cartridges made purposely. As we seen while playing with the rifle, Normally after about 5 shots, the rifle’s chamber must be cleaned or the next round could not be fitted in properly due to the black power residue built up. It makes a lot of sense to make some of them shorter so they can be chambered when the rifle got dirtier. I did put them in order from normal size to 2mm shorter in a row of 5, but after more than a year, things mixed up and I forget to check them again. I will leave a little note to remind me to check them again (and revisit this thread to refresh my memory on what I have learned) next test to avoid mistake.

Blacksmith101 · Nov 11, 2018

SlowShooter said:
This is the answer for Blacksmith101:

The short cartridges made purposely. As we seen while playing with the rifle, Normally after about 5 shots, the rifle’s chamber must be cleaned or the next round could not be fitted in properly due to the black power residue built up. It makes a lot of sense to make some of them shorter so they can be chambered when the rifle got dirtier. I did put them in order from normal size to 2mm shorter in a row of 5, but after more than a year, things mixed up and I forget to check them again. I will leave a little note to remind me to check them again (and revisit this thread to refresh my memory on what I have learned) next test to avoid mistake.

Thanks for the reply makes sense. You might color code them as an easy ID, different color stripe for different length.

SlowShooter · Nov 11, 2018

Great suggestion Blacksmith101. Thanks.

SKIP · Nov 11, 2018

I was told that John C. was at the AGC last Sunday.
Exile is over.

SlowShooter · Nov 11, 2018

Skip,

John called me 2 or 3 weeks ago. He told me that he was thinking coming back to the AGC. For me, I did say “Sayonara”, Japanese for “forever farewell” to the leader ship of the AGC a year a go.

By the way, happy veteran day. I do miss you guys!

SKIP · Nov 11, 2018

SlowShooter said:
Skip,

John called me 2 or 3 weeks ago. He told me that he was thinking coming back to the AGC. For me, I did say “Sayonara”, Japanese for “forever farewell” to the leader ship of the AGC a year a go.

By the way, happy veteran day. I do miss you guys!

Thanks. Things are not the same with your departure.
No more history lesson from you.

Blacksmith101 · Apr 25, 2019

SlowShooter I enjoyed your thread so much that when I came across a cartridge conversion for a Chassepot I immediately thought of this thread.

Here is a link (in French) to the cartridge conversion from H&C Collections:
http://www.hc-collection.com/chassepot-1866-kit-de-conversion-cartouche-metallique-c102x3273060

There is a picture of the Chassepot conversion in a rifle here toward the bottom on the left side:
https://www.hc-collection.com/calibres-elements-munition-pour-armes-anciennes-c102x333982

SlowShooter · Apr 25, 2019

Thanks Blacksmith101 for the links about the metal cartridge reloading for the Chassepot without mod to the gun. I will get 1 kit for the sake of the collection. I really hate to wash black power residue off the Gras casing so I don't want to this for the Chassepot. Anyhow, I just wonder how they extract the brass out of the Chassepot chamber. They must use a cleaning rod.

My next project for the Chassepot this summer will be making the cartridge using some kind of fabric. I am having a deep thought about the original french made cartridges. why did they chose to use the fabric instead of paper? I think I know why, but I have to prove it, the real reason behind it. Gosh...I love re-living the history.

SlowShooter · Jun 9, 2019

As planned for this summer. I just finish making a few fabric ammo for the Chassepot. To be exact, it should be called fabric covered ammo. The reason for me to do this is I am trying to understand why the French gun smith/engineer came up with the idea in the first place.
Since the beginning making and shooting the Chassepot ammo, how ever I have tried to improve it, I always found some thing left behind in the bore after firing. the worst case scenario is the percussion cap. One night, on my bed, I just realized that it's not about the casing burning completely (the cap would not burn), but about moping the bore after the firing. The casing would be shredded in the explosion and be came entangled with all things in the chamber and the bore. the ball of tangle mess will be blown out by the gas that directed to the rubber shield but then redirected to the muzzle end. The silk casing was a perfect material of the era. Today, if cost is not an issue, I would use Kevlar or even spider silk for this application. Unfortunately, money is a major concern for my hobby so I have to find something around the house first and I came across the surgical tape.
I will fire the new version of the ammo mid-June, after I come back from a field trip. Meanwhile I let everyone examine them. If you see something could go wrong, please sound the alarm.

WatTyler · Jun 9, 2019

I've been waiting for this thread to come back to life.

Blacksmith101 · Jun 10, 2019

Great to see this thread again I will be following.

C&RTactical · Jun 29, 2019

Man this is cool!

SlowShooter · Jul 16, 2019

Got time last weekend and the weather was OK (hot, humid with light wind) , so I brought the Chassepot and the 5 test cartridges to the range.

I made 5 successful shots. The ammo ignited properly as expected with no delay what so ever... and hit the intended target at 50 yard.

The results were mix. there were good and bad:

the good:

- My face is still intact
- Lot of smoke came out from my rifle so the range officers kicked me to the far side of the range near muzzle loader area.

the bad:

- All fabric cartridges remain in the bore or chamber with the percussion caps

So... the new cartridge did not meet the expectation...but there are some lesson learnt and back to the drawing board I go.

By observing the remnant of the cartridges (attached picture), I can see that the material is way too heavy (this is why the French used silk). I will shop around my garage/basement for something lighter...like ...floppy disk jacket, old necktie...

if I fail again next time, I might have to come up with paper cartridge extractor

Boxcab · Jul 16, 2019

Interesting SS. Keep us in the loop!

.

Chassepot needle rifle: Better than s...shooting

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