In just over a month 118 Red Flag PO’s

inkd · Dec 5, 2018

basscat said:
What exactly is worded in the law that prevents this from being abused? "In good faith" is not a prevention.

Yeah, I'm kind of curious on that as well.

Rack&Roll · Dec 5, 2018

RoadDawg said:
Between 2 and 3... you forgot...

2A) the Police investigate the complaint and talk to the students involved... ascertain that they were in fact talking about COD... Converse with them about which level they are currently on... and tell the teachers... thanks for calling... but try to be less suspicious in the future... and more judicious in asking the students to explain.

Part of what Hogan actually did fight for before agreeing to sign the 1302... was legal assurance written into the law that it would not allow it be abused by those looking to use it to "SWAT" people they don't like.

Bolded part: There’s in no evidence anywhere that this is true. Lawn Chair Larry was hands off. MSI President Mark Pennak hounded the Senate Judicial Proceedings Committee when the Red Flag bill arrived from the House designating any living Democrat as someone who could ERPO any firearms owners.

Senate JPC Committee Chair Robert Zirkin recognized the embarrassment and ridicule the House bill would bring to the MGA and acceded to the narrower petitioner list we have now.

Despite Mark Pennak’s forceful and COMPELLING testimony and lobbying, there would never be the acceptance that the Red Flag law violates Due Process at its most basic level. (As best we could, Deep Lurker and I were also at the JPC for 10 straight hours providing Mark with the best assist we could.)

The “word on the street” was that Sen. President Mike Miller ordered the Red Flag law pushed through, or political heads would roll.

East2West · Dec 5, 2018

RoadDawg said:
Between 2 and 3... you forgot...

2A) the Police investigate the complaint and talk to the students involved... ascertain that they were in fact talking about COD... Converse with them about which level they are currently on... and tell the teachers... thanks for calling... but try to be less suspicious in the future... and more judicious in asking the students to explain.

Part of what Hogan actually did fight for before agreeing to sign the 1302... was legal assurance written into the law that it would not allow it be abused by those looking to use it to "SWAT" people they don't like.

Yeah I'm sure that's how it would play out every single time.

inkd · Dec 5, 2018

East2West said:
Yeah I'm sure that's how it would play out every single time.

Yeah, just ask the family down here in Leonardtown.

MigraineMan · Dec 5, 2018

basscat said:
What exactly is worded in the law that prevents this from being abused? "In good faith" is not a prevention.

Yes, because Liberals would *never* weaponize legislation ...

basscat · Dec 5, 2018

inkd said:
Yeah, I'm kind of curious on that as well.

Waiting for an answer.

inkd · Dec 5, 2018

basscat said:
Waiting for an answer.

Don't go holding your breath.

Shinny · Dec 5, 2018

basscat said:
I can see this happening:
1) teacher overhears a student talking about shooting "all of them that come through the door"
2) teacher reports it to police
3) police request ERPO
4) police show up at house and take all the firearms.
5) turns out the kid was talking about his next level on his call of duty video game
Now the owner has to jump through all the legal hoops to try and get his guns back. This Will happen sooner than later.

This has already happened. The ERPO was obtained prior to any investigation.

RoadDawg · Dec 5, 2018

Rack&Roll said:
Bolded part: There’s in no evidence anywhere that this is true. Lawn Chair Larry was hands off. MSI President Mark Pennak hounded the Senate Judicial Proceedings Committee when the Red Flag bill arrived from the House designating any living Democrat as someone who could ERPO any firearms owners.

Senate JPC Committee Chair Robert Zirkin recognized the embarrassment and ridicule the House bill would bring to the MGA and acceded to the narrower petitioner list we have now.

Despite Mark Pennak’s forceful and COMPELLING testimony and lobbying, there would never be the acceptance that the Red Flag law violates Due Process at its most basic level. (As best we could, Deep Lurker and I were also at the JPC for 10 straight hours providing Mark with the best assist we could.)

The “word on the street” was that Sen. President Mike Miller ordered the Red Flag law pushed through, or political heads would roll.

And word I got was that Hogan wanted the limitation on persons who could apply for a ERPO held to LEO, Health Professionals, and immediate relative/domestic partners.

And that’s why the MGA is planning on attempting to broaden the list to include folks currently not allowed to apply.

DaemonAssassin · Dec 5, 2018

inkd said:
Yeah, just ask the family down here in Leonardtown.

Source? Not condemning or calling you out, just wondering if there is a news article about it.

j_h_smith · Dec 5, 2018

Here's an article from Ch9 news that says 172 ERPOs have been issued in 7 weeks. That's a massive increase over the last numbers (118) reported. Also within the report is the actual paperwork that encompasses an ERPO. A very interesting read to be sure.

https://www.wusa9.com/article/news/...red-flag-law-exceed-expectations/65-616308100

fidelity · Dec 6, 2018

Shinny said:
This has already happened. The ERPO was obtained prior to any investigation.

Hope that's not going to be the norm for LEO generated ERPOs, especially if they're going on hearsay from individuals that don't live with the targeted party and could be trying to create a problem for the targeted party.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

welder516 · Dec 6, 2018

If anyone thinks Sideline Larry tried to limit powers on this bill is laughable he gave his blessing and smiled for the cameras , that is how I remember it . Pictures don't lie

platoonDaddy · Dec 6, 2018

dang, only 24 denied/dismissed

Some gun owners have been able to get their weapons returned. Final seizure orders have been denied or dismissed by judges in 24 of the 172 cases so far.

daNattyFatty · Dec 6, 2018

fidelity said:
Hope that's not going to be the norm for LEO generated ERPOs, especially if they're going on hearsay from individuals that don't live with the targeted party and could be trying to create a problem for the targeted party.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

That’s something that I mentioned awhile back about LEO initiated ERPOs. People are going to be shocked at what passes/is accepted for an “investigation”.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

platoonDaddy · Dec 6, 2018

Shinny said:
This has already happened. The ERPO was obtained prior to any investigation.

Is there a link, if posted in this thread I missed it?

East2West · Dec 6, 2018

basscat said:
What exactly is worded in the law that prevents this from being abused? "In good faith" is not a prevention.

He must've missed your question

j_h_smith · Dec 6, 2018

I thought I'd post up what the actual ERPO looks like. Look at the disclaimer at the bottom of page 2. Penalty of perjury and good faith all in the same sentence. What a crock....

j_h_smith · Dec 6, 2018

It looks like an ERPO can be submitted because you unlawfully, recklessly or negligently store your firearms. That according to part 3 on the form. I wonder who determines that? The petitioner? WOW.

Mark75H · Dec 6, 2018

j_h_smith said:
I thought I'd post up what the actual ERPO looks like. Look at the disclaimer at the bottom of page 2. Penalty of perjury and good faith all in the same sentence. What a crock....

Not liable for filing the petition is not the same as not liable for perjury in doing so. Will probably be tested in court more than once and will probably fall both ways depending on the temperment of the judge hearing the case.

In just over a month 118 Red Flag PO’s

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