Microstamping

I see California's microstamping suit arguments were heard and we will see a decision by the court in a couple of months (June or July). From the questions by the judges it looks bad.

Anyone think DC is waiting to implement Cali only microstamp ready roster pending the Cali court decision, taking us off of current Mass, Md or California; to California only?

I hope it doesn't go anywhere. Microstamping is a fallacy that won't work to prevent gun crime. What if someone e steals your new "microstamping" pistol and murders a family of five.....leaves the gun at the scene???? There are so many ways that this can go wrong.

Sent from my SM-N930T using Tapatalk

2 seconds with a file will defeat the logic

yellowsled said:

2 seconds with a file will defeat the logic

Click to expand...

I think you mean the asserted logic, the logic you and I would use. The actual logic of the promotors of the law is not discussed: passing laws greatly reducing the number of handguns available, and increasing costs. And microstamping law is a great way to achieve the latter.

The 9th circuit is particularly hostile to anything resembling gun rights and they've all but ignored Heller and McDonald. The SCOTUS has been allowing them to get away with it for now, but microstamping specifically affects the very arms (handguns) that Heller addressed.


It's rumored once again that Kennedy is retiring and the CA case has quite a ways before it could make it to SCOTUS, so we'll see what happens.

yellowsled said:

2 seconds with a file will defeat the logic

Click to expand...

They will make it illegal to remove it just like it is a 10 year offense to grind the serial number of a frame.



I see some 'novelty snap caps' becoming available with a small piece of silicon carbide in place of the primer to 'condition the firing pin on certain C&R firearms'. Of course it'll have a tiny label that says 'dont use in microstamped firearms, causes cancer in california'.

DC-W said:

The 9th circuit is particularly hostile to anything resembling gun rights and they've all but ignored Heller and McDonald. The SCOTUS has been allowing them to get away with it for now, but microstamping specifically affects the very arms (handguns) that Heller addressed.


It's rumored once again that Kennedy is retiring and the CA case has quite a ways before it could make it to SCOTUS, so we'll see what happens.

Click to expand...

it is Fifth district appeals, not Ninth. Fifth is closer to 50/50.

I think the progress is:
-2010 law passed
-various issues with patents
-national shooting sports foundation moves to trial court 2014ish
-at trial court , cali doj appeals and asks fifth district to rule on whether trial court can challenge Cali DOJ/AG and legislature at all on this
- Dec 2016 fifth district turns down Cali DOJ appeal
- Case moves to cali supreme court where it currently, briefs filed 2017, oral arguments last month.

The above are all on whether the lower court can rule. Even if NSSF wins Cali SC decision, meaning lower court can rule, it will then return to lower court and the NSSF will still need to prove it is impossible for microstamping to work.

Ie there are multiple paths to kamal harris/Cali DOJ to win. If they win in any of the decisions they win outright barring a further appeal. NSSF has to win both Cali SC and then win in the lower court.

traveller said:

They will make it illegal to remove it just like it is a 10 year offense to grind the serial number of a frame.[/I]

Click to expand...

It gets complex because the frame is the control part of the firearm, it isn't a part actually it is the gun. and altering the serial number is a specific act like filing off a a car vin. Grinding off a vin or gun frame serial is nowhere near in the same class of activity as changing the tires or brakes (wear components like firing pins and barrels) which are common normal maintenance.

My wife and I have the same model gun. We go to the range together and clean the firearms together. I have no doubt the slides, containing both the barrel and the pin, which are the two parts that would be microstamped, have been swapped around several times. I have no idea which is which.

rascal said:

it is Fifth district appeals, not Ninth. Fifth is closer to 50/50.

I think the progress is:
-2010 law passed
-various issues with patents
-national shooting sports foundation moves to trial court 2014ish
-at trial court , cali doj appeals and asks fifth district to rule on whether trial court can challenge Cali DOJ/AG and legislature at all on this
- Dec 2016 fifth district turns down Cali DOJ appeal
- Case moves to cali supreme court where it currently, briefs filed 2017, oral arguments last month.

The above are all on whether the lower court can rule. Even if NSSF wins Cali SC decision, meaning lower court can rule, it will then return to lower court and the NSSF will still need to prove it is impossible for microstamping to work.

Ie there are multiple paths to kamal harris/Cali DOJ to win. If they win in any of the decisions they win outright barring a further appeal. NSSF has to win both Cali SC and then win in the lower court.

Click to expand...

California is in the 9th circuit.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Court_of_Appeals_for_the_Ninth_Circuit

Now everyone will just get a nail firing pin for their AR. So what if in the cleaning of my gun my firing pin rolls off the bench and lands tip down on the concrete?

jrumann59 said:

Now everyone will just get a nail firing pin for their AR. So what if in the cleaning of my gun my firing pin rolls off the bench and lands tip down on the concrete?

Click to expand...

Soon after that requirement, Cali will introduce a monthly inspection program for your assaulting-murder-rifle and your 'semi-almost-full-auto' pistols. The inspector will check the integrity of your required safe and whether the microstamp is unmolested. The fee for that service from the government will be about $1400/year per gun (oh, and the gun inspectors will have their own public employee union).

traveller said:

Soon after that requirement, Cali will introduce a monthly inspection program for your assaulting-murder-rifle and your 'semi-almost-full-auto' pistols. The inspector will check the integrity of your required safe and whether the microstamp is unmolested. The fee for that service from the government will be about $1400/year per gun (oh, and the gun inspectors will have their own public employee union).

Click to expand...

Naw, it's a MDK rifle...

The biggest fear you should have isn't whether your gun microstamps...it's will criminals now go to the range and pick up your spent cases and leave them laying around a body they just shot...You're going to need a range firing pin and an inspection firing pin...

DC-W said:

California is in the 9th circuit.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Court_of_Appeals_for_the_Ninth_Circuit

Click to expand...

No the case is not and has never been in the Federal courts. I am referring to California District. The fifth district court of appeals (Fresno, Cali)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_courts_of_appeal

Not clear how it would get in the Federal courts under the 11th amendment. the Cali SC is probably the end game for this.

Muleskinner said:

The biggest fear you should have isn't whether your gun microstamps...it's will criminals now go to the range and pick up your spent cases and leave them laying around a body they just shot...You're going to need a range firing pin and an inspection firing pin...

Click to expand...

The issue only partially about functionality of microstamping.
The bigger issue is mandating this will:
a) drastically reduce the number of purchasable guns
b) make a big fat hole to bring in smart guns next.
c) embolden large majority Dem states Md, Ma, NJ etc) and DC to follow

rascal said:

The issue only partially about functionality of microstamping.
The bigger issue is mandating this will:
a) drastically reduce the number of purchasable guns
b) make a big fat hole to bring in smart guns next.
c) embolden large majority Dem states Md, Ma, NJ etc) and DC to follow

Click to expand...

Only if you plan to comply...which I do not...Building a rifle or a pistol is far too easy and from 80% I can get the parts I need in a state without the mandate...Simple enough...

rascal said:

No the case is not and has never been in the Federal courts. I am referring to California District. The fifth district court of appeals (Fresno, Cali)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_courts_of_appeal

Not clear how it would get in the Federal courts under the 11th amendment. the Cali SC is probably the end game for this.

Click to expand...

Ah, I understand you now. Forgive me.

DC-W said:

Ah, I understand you now. Forgive me.

Click to expand...

oh its cool, it is a complex set of hearings, appeals strategies.

Essentially the first strategy by second amendment rights side was to purchase a patent extension, which sounds obscure as heck, but is apparently very very common in corporate patent legal strategies. Kamala Harris and the state then seemed ot have worked with the original microstamping patent holder to release it to public domain anyway, nullifying that.

The current suit seems to be based on an over 100 year old California law implying California can not legislate anything that is not possible, and NSSF saying arguing this nullifies the Microstamping law, as well as a suit against some of harris actions. The higher rulings seem to place the probative burden on NSSF to prove it is totally impossible though, so I'm not optimistic. The state doesn't have to prove it is possible, NSSF has to prove it is not possible at all

In other words nothing really directly addressing the heart of the issue. so it is all pretty confusing anyway. I don't think any of the strategies so far are what would make it to federal appeals of US SC.

Muleskinner said:

Only if you plan to comply...which I do not...Building a rifle or a pistol is far too easy and from 80% I can get the parts I need in a state without the mandate...Simple enough...

Click to expand...

Respectfully that is not the game Harris and the gun control lobby are playing. Their game, and they have been very successful is making gun ownership harder, more expensive and more limited for the average person. Any reduction in law abiding persons gun ownership in Cali is a reduction in people who will stand up for the Bill of Rights.


Also the assertion of control by the state, beyond traditional attributes like rates of fire or other putative lethality attributes, will allow not just microstamping but lots of other controls, and they hope set a precedent for other states to follow.

I'm in DC but keep in mind your Maryland roster system is by far the most benign of roster systems. it id a delay, some drop testing, making sure the gun doesn't explode when fired, and wither it can hit the broad side of a ban. If you don't know Massachusetts' roster well it appears to be similar to Maryland but in practice Mass also adds "Attorney General " requirements on top of the roster, meaning there roster really only applies to police and everyone else is deeply limited due to other restrictions placed by the whim of the AG. Essentially Marland list is about 10x broader than California, but Massachusetts actual allowed for civilian list is effectively somewhere in between Cali and Md.

For example a glock 43 is on the Mass roster, but mass civilian residents can't have it due to regs. Same will be true of the Sig p365 when it passes Mass roster.

This microstamping mandate is a very muscular assertion by Cali legislature and AG that gun makers maybe able to resist by simply refusing to make cali compliant versions, but which they may have to cave-in to should it spread to a few other states.

This is really just a variation on the old "ballistic fingerprinting" which worked so well in Maryland and New York.

It would make a LOT more sense to put the numbers on the people, perhaps some sort of mark on everybody's hand or maybe forehead.

Threeband said:

This is really just a variation on the old "ballistic fingerprinting" which worked so well in Maryland and New York.

It would make a LOT more sense to put the numbers on the people, perhaps some sort of mark on everybody's hand or maybe forehead.

Click to expand...

Revelation 13:16

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk