Building a firearm, how many?

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  • Sticky

    Beware of Dog
    MDS Supporter
    Mar 16, 2013
    4,501
    AA Co
    I was recently talking to a friend and am curious if someone can cite the regulation in regards to limiting how many firearms one can 'build' for personal use. He referenced (but with no citation) the fact that you may only build one per year for personal use. Is this correct? Just curious.. ;)
     

    Sticky

    Beware of Dog
    MDS Supporter
    Mar 16, 2013
    4,501
    AA Co
    That's why I am asking those more knowledgeable with the rules and laws... lol
     

    Sticky

    Beware of Dog
    MDS Supporter
    Mar 16, 2013
    4,501
    AA Co
    I agree, as I don't recall ever seeing that written in a law or code, but... there are many here with a wealth of knowledge beyond the scope of my own.

    Just to clarify, this would be building, either a rifle (like an AR) or pistol (like a Glock clone) from an 80% receiver, thus 'building' it yourself.
     

    dontpanic

    Ultimate Member
    Jul 7, 2013
    6,631
    Timonium
    I just meant I don't think there's any such saw. And as a result, nothing to cite. If it isn't illegal, it's legal.

    This is the answer. You just cannot be doing it as a business. And you must adhere to all state laws. (ie. You cannot build a banned rifle)

    You can sell them, it just cannot be a commercial enterprise.
     

    whistlersmother

    Peace through strength
    Jan 29, 2013
    8,948
    Fulton, MD
    No serial number required until you sell. Not sure if that includes gift/inheritence/other transfer.

    I must admit, the 80% glocks are appealing.
     

    Sticky

    Beware of Dog
    MDS Supporter
    Mar 16, 2013
    4,501
    AA Co
    I thought this was the case. I am familiar with the issues in regards to selling, but I was just curious if there is a code that states 'one per year' as I have seen this cited (but with no actual reference to a code of law or other) on some 'more or less' reliable sources in the past.

    I suspect that it is not, in fact, a code of law, but I'd like to be more certain..
     

    kalister1

    R.I.P.
    May 16, 2008
    4,814
    Pasadena Maryland
    U.S. Department of Justice
    Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco,
    Firearms and Explosives
    Office of the Director
    _____________________________________________________
    __________________________
    Washington, DC 20226
    January 2, 2015
    18 U.S.C. 921(a)(
    3)(A) and (B): DEFINITIONS (FIREARM)
    18 U.S.C. 921(a)(10): DEFINITIONS (MANUFACTURER)
    18 U.S.C. 921(a)(11)(B): DEFINITIONS (DEALER)
    18 U.S.C. 921(a)(21)(A): DEFINITIONS (ENGAGED IN THE BUSINESS)
    18 U.S.C. 922(a)(1)(A): LICENSE REQUIRED
    18 U.S.C. 923(
    i): IDENTIFICATION OF FIREARMS
    27 CFR 478.92(a): IDENTIFICATION OF FIREARMS
    Any person (including any corporation or other legal entity)
    engaged in the business of
    performing machining, molding, casting, forging, printing (additive manufacturing) or ot
    her
    manufacturing process to create a firearm frame or receiver, or to make a frame or receiver
    suitable for use as part of a “weapon ... which will or is designed to or may readily be converted
    to expel a projectile by the action of an explosive,” i.e., a “
    firearm,” must be licensed as a
    manufacturer under the Gun Control Act of 1968 (GCA); identify (mark) any such firearm; and
    maintain required manufacturer’s records. A business (including an association or society) may
    not avoid the manufacturing license, marking, and recordkeeping requirements of the GCA by
    allowing persons to perform manufacturing processes on firearms (including frames or
    receivers) using machinery or equipment under its dominion and control where that business
    controls access to, and u
    se of, such machinery or equipment. ATF Ruling 2010-
    10 is hereby
    clarified.

    The rest gets long and ..... Well Read it and see if you know what it means?

    https://www.atf.gov/file/11711/download
     

    Sticky

    Beware of Dog
    MDS Supporter
    Mar 16, 2013
    4,501
    AA Co
    U.S. Department of Justice
    Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco,
    Firearms and Explosives
    Office of the Director
    _____________________________________________________
    __________________________
    Washington, DC 20226
    January 2, 2015
    18 U.S.C. 921(a)(
    3)(A) and (B): DEFINITIONS (FIREARM)
    18 U.S.C. 921(a)(10): DEFINITIONS (MANUFACTURER)
    18 U.S.C. 921(a)(11)(B): DEFINITIONS (DEALER)
    18 U.S.C. 921(a)(21)(A): DEFINITIONS (ENGAGED IN THE BUSINESS)
    18 U.S.C. 922(a)(1)(A): LICENSE REQUIRED
    18 U.S.C. 923(
    i): IDENTIFICATION OF FIREARMS
    27 CFR 478.92(a): IDENTIFICATION OF FIREARMS
    Any person (including any corporation or other legal entity)
    engaged in the business of
    performing machining, molding, casting, forging, printing (additive manufacturing) or ot
    her
    manufacturing process to create a firearm frame or receiver, or to make a frame or receiver
    suitable for use as part of a “weapon ... which will or is designed to or may readily be converted
    to expel a projectile by the action of an explosive,” i.e., a “
    firearm,” must be licensed as a
    manufacturer under the Gun Control Act of 1968 (GCA); identify (mark) any such firearm; and
    maintain required manufacturer’s records. A business (including an association or society) may
    not avoid the manufacturing license, marking, and recordkeeping requirements of the GCA by
    allowing persons to perform manufacturing processes on firearms (including frames or
    receivers) using machinery or equipment under its dominion and control where that business
    controls access to, and u
    se of, such machinery or equipment. ATF Ruling 2010-
    10 is hereby
    clarified.

    The rest gets long and ..... Well Read it and see if you know what it means?

    https://www.atf.gov/file/11711/download
    I have read it many times... it is referring to those 'in the business of', which I am not referring to... building your own gun is not 'in the business of'... ;)
     

    Sticky

    Beware of Dog
    MDS Supporter
    Mar 16, 2013
    4,501
    AA Co
    I am assuming that if it is law, someone can cite it, if not, I will go with the 'there is much misinformation out there on the interwebs' argument.. :lol2: :party29:
     

    Rambler

    Doing the best with the worst.
    Oct 22, 2011
    2,162
    U.S. Department of Justice
    Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco,
    Firearms and Explosives
    Office of the Director
    _____________________________________________________
    __________________________
    Washington, DC 20226
    January 2, 2015
    18 U.S.C. 921(a)(
    3)(A) and (B): DEFINITIONS (FIREARM)
    18 U.S.C. 921(a)(10): DEFINITIONS (MANUFACTURER)
    18 U.S.C. 921(a)(11)(B): DEFINITIONS (DEALER)
    18 U.S.C. 921(a)(21)(A): DEFINITIONS (ENGAGED IN THE BUSINESS)
    18 U.S.C. 922(a)(1)(A): LICENSE REQUIRED
    18 U.S.C. 923(
    i): IDENTIFICATION OF FIREARMS
    27 CFR 478.92(a): IDENTIFICATION OF FIREARMS
    Any person (including any corporation or other legal entity)
    engaged in the business of
    performing machining, molding, casting, forging, printing (additive manufacturing) or ot
    her
    manufacturing process to create a firearm frame or receiver, or to make a frame or receiver
    suitable for use as part of a “weapon ... which will or is designed to or may readily be converted
    to expel a projectile by the action of an explosive,” i.e., a “
    firearm,” must be licensed as a
    manufacturer under the Gun Control Act of 1968 (GCA); identify (mark) any such firearm; and
    maintain required manufacturer’s records. A business (including an association or society) may
    not avoid the manufacturing license, marking, and recordkeeping requirements of the GCA by
    allowing persons to perform manufacturing processes on firearms (including frames or
    receivers) using machinery or equipment under its dominion and control where that business
    controls access to, and u
    se of, such machinery or equipment. ATF Ruling 2010-
    10 is hereby
    clarified.

    The rest gets long and ..... Well Read it and see if you know what it means?

    https://www.atf.gov/file/11711/download

    This is the ATF "ruling" that prohibited a CNC machine shop from letting a customer "push the button" so to speak and make a blank or 80% receiver into a firearm on the shop's machinery. Also, it allowed gunsmiths to do engraving, coating anodizing etc. on uncompleted firearms as long as they were not completing the machining to finish the receiver.

    The only mention of the home builder is in the first to second page referring to someone wanting to have the gunsmithing work done.

    So, does anyone know for certain if the 80% homebuilder stuff falls into the not specifically prohibited but not expressly (written) permitted?
     

    wbw2123

    Active Member
    Nov 19, 2012
    902
    No serial number required until you sell. Not sure if that includes gift/inheritence/other transfer.

    This is another internet rumor and false. While the atf recommends you apply a serial number for recovering lost or stolen firearms, there is no such law which states you must serialize a home built firearm for sale. There are many firearms manufactured commercially before 1968 that are bought and sold every day without serial numbers. The law applying to sale of home built firearms says you cannot do it for commercial gain.
     

    Sticky

    Beware of Dog
    MDS Supporter
    Mar 16, 2013
    4,501
    AA Co
    This is another internet rumor and false. While the atf recommends you apply a serial number for recovering lost or stolen firearms, there is no such law which states you must serialize a home built firearm for sale. There are many firearms manufactured commercially before 1968 that are bought and sold every day without serial numbers. The law applying to sale of home built firearms says you cannot do it for commercial gain.
    I'm not certain about that either, not that it matters at this point to me, but there is an opinion letter referenced on occasion that states otherwise. I have not seen a ruling to that effect that applies to those not in the business (non-licensees)..
     

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    wbw2123

    Active Member
    Nov 19, 2012
    902
    That is an opinion letter and cites the wrong code. It's addressed to one person and is therefore worth little nothing regarding law.

    27 CFR 478.92 specifically applies to licensed manufacturers and importers. A home builder is neither.
     

    Sticky

    Beware of Dog
    MDS Supporter
    Mar 16, 2013
    4,501
    AA Co
    That is an opinion letter and cites the wrong code. It's addressed to one person and is therefore worth little nothing regarding law.

    27 CFR 478.92 specifically applies to licensed manufacturers and importers. A home builder is neither.
    Agreed, just pointing out a frequently cited 'source'... again, perhaps just internet myth..or misinformation. ;)
     

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