Remove trail cams on your property, get raided by DNR

FoxSlayer · Dec 18, 2020

To go with the thread about DNR overstepping their constitutional boundaries

Landowner removes unmarked trail cameras he finds on his land. Cops raid his house at 5am

https://www.agweb.com/article/government-cameras-hidden-private-property-welcome-open-fields

slsc98 · Dec 18, 2020

Thanks for posting this up.

mdunphyjr · Dec 18, 2020

So my question.... why did they place the cameras there?

JDH146 · Dec 18, 2020

From The article.

Hollingsworth was hit with hunting violations related to dove baiting, and also charged for theft of the trail camera in August 2019. Flatly stated, Hollingsworth believes the government was hunting a bullfrog with a shotgun. “I ended up with my first conviction for hunting over bait. I paid $5,000 for a lawyer and a $3,000 fine, lost my hunting license for three years, and missed a week of work. I’m not innocent of everything and I’m not above the law, but this was so heavy-handed and over the top, and I pleaded because I was in a headlock. They threatened me with jail time and hundreds of thousands of dollars in fines when in reality, I was railroaded over a camera.”

JDH146 · Dec 18, 2020

Also from the article.
Ironically, the announced entry and search of Hollingsworth’s home required a warrant; the secret entry and hidden search of Hollingsworth’s private land required no warrant. The distinction is a capsule version of the Open Fields doctrine.

cantstop · Dec 18, 2020

This reminds me of a story years ago (15 yrs?) where folks were removing GPS devices from their cars. They were put there by the popo and when folks took them out and smashed them up, they were charged with theft and destruction of evidence.

ChrisD · Dec 18, 2020

Aside from the invasion of one’s privacy, and violation of rights, play their game instead of being charged with a crime. Place a bunch of tree branches in the line of sight to obscure it without touching the camera.

FoxSlayer · Dec 18, 2020

cantstop said:
This reminds me of a story years ago (15 yrs?) where folks were removing GPS devices from their cars. They were put there by the popo and when folks took them out and smashed them up, they were charged with theft and destruction of evidence.

Your supposed to put them on another vehicle.

Anyone remember when the bomb squad was called because sbr put trackers on boats and the owners though they were bombs ?

FoxSlayer · Dec 18, 2020

https://www.thehulltruth.com/boating-forum/329438-maryland-dnr.html

https://www.cecildaily.com/local_ne...cle_8118d15c-597f-11e0-b0cd-001cc4c002e0.html

slsc98 · Dec 18, 2020

ChrisD said:
Aside from the invasion of one’s privacy, and violation of rights, play their game instead of being charged with a crime. Place a bunch of tree branches in the line of sight to obscure it without touching the camera.

Doctor_M · Dec 18, 2020

My question is were the cameras marked as state property (i.e. with a property sticker)? How is a land owner to know if cameras are placed there by law enforcement or if it is just a jerky neighbor poaching on your property. Picking up something that I found on my property should not be theft. If someone trespasses on my property and puts in a tree stand or a camera, I wouldn't hesitate to take it down.

Sundazes · Dec 18, 2020

If they were left there for more than 90 days, would they be considered abandoned?

bratgirllcp · Dec 18, 2020

Doctor_M said:
My question is were the cameras marked as state property (i.e. with a property sticker)? How is a land owner to know if cameras are placed there by law enforcement or if it is just a jerky neighbor poaching on your property. Picking up something that I found on my property should not be theft. If someone trespasses on my property and puts in a tree stand or a camera, I wouldn't hesitate to take it down.

I agree its my property

geda · Dec 18, 2020

Placing random game cameras is something that criminals commonly do, and I think any reasonable person would remove and/or destroy them. How is this any different then destroying a still, meth lab or grow op found on your property? Is the ATF going to arrest you for destroying their "decoy meth lab"?

Qbeam · Dec 18, 2020

In reading the story, looks like he was bullied or not telling the full story. If it didn't have DNR property tags, then they would have a hard time saying he knowing took government property.

Why would the DNR randomly place cameras "without probable cause", on his property. Did the DNR look at a map and say, "let's see what we can see on this person's property", or did they get a complaint and couldn't verify it unless they put the cameras up?

He admitted to the offense of baiting for game, and got hammered. The use of 10 officers and guns, is likely because the good old boys in the backwoods have a tendency to shoot first and ask questions later kind of mindset. Or the person who put the complaint in tried to be a good neighbor and was told to MYODB.

Just some thoughts....

Q

FoxSlayer · Dec 18, 2020

Qbeam said:
In reading the story, looks like he was bullied or not telling the full story. If it didn't have DNR property tags, then they would have a hard time saying he knowing took government property.

Why would the DNR randomly place cameras "without probable cause", on his property. Did the DNR look at a map and say, "let's see what we can see on this person's property", or did they get a complaint and couldn't verify it unless they put the cameras up?

He admitted to the offense of baiting for game, and got hammered. The use of 10 officers and guns, is likely because the good old boys in the backwoods have a tendency to shoot first and ask questions later kind of mindset. Or the person who put the complaint in tried to be a good neighbor and was told to MYODB.

Just some thoughts....

Q

He had one hunting violation.

Sounds like a personal issue with one or more of the dnr there.
Same crap happens in this state with cops

Qbeam · Dec 18, 2020

FoxSlayer said:
He had one hunting violation.

Sounds like a personal issue with one or more of the dnr there.
Same crap happens in this state with cops

Yeah, someone knew who he was, and hence the extra bodies. Most of the DNR people I know are normal folks doing their job. When you get the poachers, and violators possibly shooting back, they have to do what they have to do.

Wonder if a single DNR person came the first time asking if he found any game cameras on his property and said "no".

Interesting story, and wonder how many states can do this type of surveillance under DNR jurisdiction (other agencies requesting assistance....).

Q

FoxSlayer · Dec 18, 2020

Qbeam said:
Yeah, someone knew who he was, and hence the extra bodies. Most of the DNR people I know are normal folks doing their job. When you get the poachers, and violators possibly shooting back, they have to do what they have to do.

Wonder if a single DNR person came the first time asking if he found any game cameras on his property and said "no".

Interesting story, and wonder how many states can do this type of surveillance under DNR jurisdiction (other agencies requesting assistance....).

Q

Are you seriously justifying a search warrant and raid of a house over a landowner taking unmarked game cameras off his property?

And “violators possibly shooting back”. Criminal and negligent cops do the same kind of thing a lot so not sure if you want to go down that road of logic

StantonCree · Dec 18, 2020

Yeah i don’t like that

Qbeam · Dec 18, 2020

FoxSlayer said:
Are you seriously justifying a search warrant and raid of a house over a landowner taking unmarked game cameras off his property?

And “violators possibly shooting back”. Criminal and negligent cops do the same kind of thing a lot so not sure if you want to go down that road of logic

Nope, not at all justifying the actions. Pointing out that the story is not quite what it seems. If the state allows it, as it was inferred in the article, they could put the game cameras on private property without permission (seems odd to me that they can do it) per the SCOTUS ruling. On a federal level, no warrant needed for open property. Some states have prohibited per the article.

As for having backup when you go a calling, I am sure law enforcement folks would want backup when they go out on certain calls.

It is showing how the government is able to use certain laws to get around others.

The situation was messed up to begin with. He admitted to wrong doing after the fact, but as for the response, I wasn't there for the back story. For all we know, it could have been that the neighbor complained, DNR could set up cameras due to the law allowing them, and cameras went missing. Where it went from there would be speculation on my part as to why they needed that many people to find missing cameras.

Q

Remove trail cams on your property, get raided by DNR

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