What happened to the 6.8SPC

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  • danb

    dont be a dumbass
    Feb 24, 2013
    22,704
    google is your friend, I am not.
    thing is nobody loads the 110 in subsonic, and most are around 1000fps in 300BO, most any sub load is going to be 200+gr with .600 or better BC. At 300 yards a 147gr 9mm@1KFPS has lost almost 1/2 it's energy and around 750fps, a 300BO at the same muzzle velocity and distance has only lost about 75FPS compared to the muzzle velocity.

    :thumbsup: bullet shape does matter!
     

    woodline

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Jan 8, 2017
    1,947
    I see what you mean. Yeah, the russian imported subsonic does not appear to be russian imported prices!
    Incidentally I suspect we could probably do a group order with Sam at SGAmmo and likely get much better pricing for subsonic 7.62x39. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if he were already considering taking a risk on a big order of it.
     

    erwos

    The Hebrew Hammer
    MDS Supporter
    Mar 25, 2009
    13,866
    Rockville, MD
    Incidentally I suspect we could probably do a group order with Sam at SGAmmo and likely get much better pricing for subsonic 7.62x39. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if he were already considering taking a risk on a big order of it.
    This is the third time I've said it in this thread: K-VAR has an exclusivity agreement for subsonic Brown Bear.

    I talked to Sam a couple months ago. He is trying to work a different-branded version, maybe under Barnaul branding. It was not clear it was going to work out at the time.
     

    Pinecone

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 4, 2013
    28,175
    thing is nobody loads the 110 in subsonic, and most are around 1000fps in 300BO, most any sub load is going to be 200+gr with .600 or better BC. At 300 yards a 147gr 9mm@1KFPS has lost almost 1/2 it's energy and around 750fps, a 300BO at the same muzzle velocity and distance has only lost about 75FPS compared to the muzzle velocity.

    Exactly. WHY would you load a 110 grain .30 cal bullet for subsonic? Unless for rodents.

    Similar thing with subsonic 5.56. WHY? Might as well shoot .22 LR. There is the Aquila subsonic 60 grain .22 LR that would be just as effective short range, and a WHOLE lot cheaper then shooting any subsonic 5.56.

    And not that much less effective than 110 grain .30 cal subsonic.
     

    woodline

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Jan 8, 2017
    1,947
    This is the third time I've said it in this thread: K-VAR has an exclusivity agreement for subsonic Brown Bear.

    I talked to Sam a couple months ago. He is trying to work a different-branded version, maybe under Barnaul branding. It was not clear it was going to work out at the time.
    I wasn't referring to the Brown Bear ammo. I am aware of the exclusivity agreement.
     

    balttigger

    Ultimate Member
    Oct 15, 2008
    3,051
    Middle River, MD
    I was impulsive with some of my tax money from last year and sent my Ruger Mini-30 to Accuracy Systems for a complete rework and rebarrel to 6.8SPC II. Once I have the barrel broken in, I want to get it nitrided, but not before I send it off one more time and have the chamber reamed for a wildcat round from Mad Dog Weapons that changes the case taper slightly and the shoulder angle is changed, resulting in increased case capacity.
    fb-img-1514321882107.jpg

    The loaded case is a standard SPC while the unloaded one is a new GPC. SPC ammo can still be fired in a GPC chamber to fireform it with slightly less velocity.

    They also are necking the 6.8 case to several different calibers. Will probably build an AR pistol in one of em with this years tax return...
    gpc_orig.jpg


    Or their 257 Ocelot, which is a 5.56 necked up to .257 - One guy has a 90gr pill up to 3100fps out of a 10.5" barrel using CFEBLK. Whichever way I go - it's gonna be next years deer weapon.
     

    OMCHamlin

    Ultimate Member
    BANNED!!!
    May 17, 2017
    1,115
    The Cumberland Plateau
    I have a Bison Armory 6.8 SPCII upper, 18". I like it, it's accurate, reliable and handy. It's a killer of deer and pig. But I want to turn it into a 6.5 Grendel in the worst way... (It's only a bolt, barrel and mags)
     

    Tracker

    Active Member
    Aug 21, 2011
    587
    Anne Arundel County
    Looks like the Army just gave Sig a contract to provide sample rifles and SAWs all chambered in 6.8 hybrid. Anybody got the specs on that round
     
    Last edited:

    lazarus

    Ultimate Member
    Jun 23, 2015
    13,678
    PPU make subsonic 7.62x39. Only 182gr if I am remembering correctly, but they claim it’ll cycle AKs and SKS. Not going to be as good as 200+ grain 7.62x39. However, it may also stabilize fine out of a regular AK or SKS, which a 200+ grain subsonic 7.62x39 probably won’t without a faster twist barrel.
     

    danb

    dont be a dumbass
    Feb 24, 2013
    22,704
    google is your friend, I am not.
    Right, I knew a few companies had been chosen for further research on prototypes.

    Also, take note of the fact that Sig's entries (including the MCX Spear):

    The MG-6.8 [and MCX SPEAR] can be chambered in both SIG’s 6.8x51mm Hybrid and 7.62x51mm, requiring only a barrel change and no change to the bolt. The MG-6.8 takes the MG-338’s technology and compresses it into a package the size of an M249.
    https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog...ook-sig-sauers-next-generation-squad-weapons/

    So Sig's version of the 6.8 is compatible with 7.61x51 platform, and thats their backup plan. This does not sound compatible with AR15 to me, you need the AR10 platform for the box magazine and bolt.

    I am going to go with dont jump into this just yet...
     

    alucard0822

    For great Justice
    Oct 29, 2007
    17,643
    PA
    Looks like the Army just gave Sig a contract to provide sample rifles and SAWs all chambered in 6.8 hybrid. Anybody got the specs on that round

    Sig's 6.8 hybrid and the 6.8 Sherwood seem to be between a 7mm-08 and 270WSM in performance, volume and body diameter, 140gr@3K ballistics. Seems both have a slightly rebated rim to use 7.62 bolts, and an OAL to stay under M118 OAL, not sure on the other dimeantions or how long of a bullet it will work with, there are some good long range / high BC bullets over 160gr in that caliber.
     

    lazarus

    Ultimate Member
    Jun 23, 2015
    13,678
    Right, I knew a few companies had been chosen for further research on prototypes.

    Also, take note of the fact that Sig's entries (including the MCX Spear):


    https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog...ook-sig-sauers-next-generation-squad-weapons/

    So Sig's version of the 6.8 is compatible with 7.61x51 platform, and thats their backup plan. This does not sound compatible with AR15 to me, you need the AR10 platform for the box magazine and bolt.

    I am going to go with dont jump into this just yet...

    Its not. Everyone playing with 6.8 hybrid stuff that the Army is asking them to investigate are doing it on short action, not mini action. So this is all AR-10 type stuff and AR-10 type recoil (mostly 7.62x51 or a little stouter. Many of the 6.8 rounds are pushing 3000fps from a ~140gr pill. That is more recoil than 7.62x51).

    Because we need overmatch. Also still not likely to be effective against modern Russian body armor at anything exception point blank distances unless using WC rounds, which are expensive and current 5.56x45 WC (M995) is capable of defeating ESAPI and whatever Russian top tier infantry armor is after multiple hits (IIRC usually takes about 2-3. I think first round has something like a 20-30% chance of penetration at least than 100yds).

    I doubt these rounds are going to significantly increase penetration chances for steel core at anything like point blank range that M995 can't do right now. At best WC core ammo might have longer range chances, like maybe decent chance of penetration at 200 or 300yds. But again, we are back to, it just takes a bit of armor innovation...

    With modern battlefields explosives are what tend to kill more soldiers than rifles do (and machineguns). Now if they decide some 6.8 hybrid round is a better choice than 7.62x51, that sounds smart. It would give longer engagement ranges and might increase light armor capability, both at point blank range and extend that effectiveness out a bit more.

    But arming every soldier with one sounds like a stupid idea to increase weight, significantly more recoil and less ammo capacity when most of our opponents are unarmored and if we do face infantry with armor, grenades, multiple hits where one bypasses the armor, mortars, artillery and heavy machine guns are likely to be "for the win".

    What would be nice is if the army replaces the SAW.

    It had its day, but there are SO many designs these days that are radically better, and chamber the 5.56x45. The Knights armament constant recoil prototypes being one example as incredible awesome. Shaves something like 5-6lbs with a 20" barrel, compared to a 16" barreled SAW. Significantly less recoil (not like it had much).

    The 7.62x51 version is even more levels of awesome compared to the current US GP machinegun. Again, many pounds lighter and way less recoil.

    Both also appear to be more accurate. Maybe they aren't robust enough and that is why the Military hasn't switched, but if they are and there are no other critical flaws, it seems worth while to light a machinegunner's load by 5-8lbs, have reduced recoil and seems to be better accuracy also. Yeah, it won't be dirt cheap, but the maybe hundred or two hundred million replacement project seems worth while compared to dumping billions on amphibious vehicles the Marines have decided they don't want.

    Unless or until armor gets to the level where everyone has it, most of them can be armored over most of their body and that armor is capable of defeating a 5.56x45 of any type under most circumstances I just don't see us switching. If the effectiveness really was zero, okay, if we need .50BMG bullpup carbines to have a prayer of hurting enemy combatants, that's what we need so we'll just have to suck it up that each soldier only carries 40 rounds.

    But we aren't remotely close to that.

    Maybe if/when powered armor becomes widespread it makes sense to move away from the 5.56x45.
     

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