.243 Winchester stuck cases

JoeRinMD · Jan 26, 2017

In the "What did you do at your bench today" thread, I mentioned helping a fried get started at reloading for his new .243 Winchester bolt-action rifle. On Tuesday night we loaded up 50 rounds and today he went to the range to shoot. He said most went into the chamber and ejected smoothly, but some felt a little snug. Then on the 11th round he said the bolt was completely stuck and he went home.

The load was middle of the range from the Hodgdon website: 32 grains of Varget behind a 100 gr Sierra soft-point bullet. The cases are mostly Remington, with some PPU brass as well. All were fired once from new, then neck-formed when we reloaded them.

Looking at the fired cases tonight, 10 of them looked completely normal, with one showing a deeper than normal firing pin mark. None showed any flattened primers or flow around the firing pin hole.

Any thoughts from the collective wisdom of MDS?

John from MD: This is Jim D from trap at AAF&G. If you see him at High-Power you might want to take a look and see what you think.

JoeR

Zman9398 · Jan 27, 2017

Just had this problem with .223. Get a case gauge from Lyman. Resize the cases and run them through the gauge to make sure the sizing die is set properly. Then after running through the bullet seater/crimper check them again. Adjust your dies accordly. The shoulder on the case may be buldging from improper sizing or there could be too much crimp.

Mike3888 · Jan 27, 2017

We're the cases once fired from his gun originally?

outrider58 · Jan 27, 2017

Any "frosting" on the cases indicating a rough chamber? Other than that, as others have said, get a case gauge. I prefer Sheridan gauges.

http://www.sheridanengineering.com/index-2.htm

JoeRinMD · Jan 27, 2017

Mike3888 said:
We're the cases once fired from his gun originally?

Yes, the factory rounds were all fired from the same rifle, then reloaded.

JoeR

Mike3888 · Jan 27, 2017

JoeRinMD said:
Yes, the factory rounds were all fired from the same rifle, then reloaded.

JoeR

If those rounds extracted fine as factory then u neck sized, did you trim all to correct length. I've messed with neck sizing only in 243 and 308 and never seen any significant difference in accuracy.

BigRick · Jan 27, 2017

If you were just neck sizing only then you may need to bump the shoulder 1/1000 of an inch. That should take care of the issue. My Lapua mag had the same thing happen with just neck sizing. Bumped the the shoulder 1/1000th and no problems since.

JoeRinMD · Jan 27, 2017

If those rounds extracted fine as factory then u neck sized, did you trim all to correct length. I've messed with neck sizing only in 243 and 308 and never seen any significant difference in accuracy.

I didn't trim to length. My assumption was that after a single firing they wouldn't have stretched enough to require it before being reloaded again.

If you were just neck sizing only then you may need to bump the shoulder 1/1000 of an inch. That should take care of the issue. My Lapua mag had the same thing happen with just neck sizing. Bumped the the shoulder 1/1000th and no problems since.

When you say "bump the shoulder 1/1000 of an inch", how did you measure that? I can remove the decapping pin and resize the remaining rounds, but want to make sure I understand the process.

JoeR

outrider58 · Jan 27, 2017

JoeRinMD said:
When you say "bump the shoulder 1/1000 of an inch", how did you measure that? I can remove the decapping pin and resize the remaining rounds, but want to make sure I understand the process.

JoeR

Found this:

John from MD · Jan 27, 2017

When you say "bump the shoulder 1/1000 of an inch", how did you measure that? I can remove the decapping pin and resize the remaining rounds, but want to make sure I understand the process.

JoeR[/QUOTE]

Joe,

Anything you do with a case, can be measured using a case length gauge and a caliper or depth gauge. This is assuming that the chamber is within the SAAMI specifications. If you have a chamber with minor head space issues, you can adjust the sizing die so it doesn't size as much. By measuring the amount the case sticks out of the gauge, you can adjust for what you need.

Bumping the shoulder back is usually only needed if you neck size all the time to reset the shoulder as the brass stretches. You can tell when this is due by either measuring the case in the gauge or by how hard the cartridge is to chamber or extract.

Even though his brass was only once fired, it could still be the problem. The only way to check that brass are still in spec is to drop them into a case gauge after sizing. Since the shooter said some felt snug, this could be from 1) the case is too long or 2) the case was not sized enough.

Regards,

atblis · Jan 27, 2017

Crimping, either intentionally or unintentionally can do this. A longer case will get crimped more which is sometimes why not all cases exhibit problems. Excessive crimp can buckle a case. Basically the body of the seating die is adjusted down too far. Read the instructions specific to the die brand and type. Some people are unaware that seating dies even have a crimp feature.

Pinecone · Jan 27, 2017

Normally, you to adjust how much you bump the shoulder back, you get the Hornady comparator and measure several fired cases. then you adjust your die so the sized cases measure 1 thousandth less than the fired cases.

http://www.hornady.com/store/Bullet-Comparator-Kits/

JoeRinMD · Jan 27, 2017

Anything you do with a case, can be measured using a case length gauge and a caliper or depth gauge. This is assuming that the chamber is within the SAAMI specifications. If you have a chamber with minor head space issues, you can adjust the sizing die so it doesn't size as much. By measuring the amount the case sticks out of the gauge, you can adjust for what you need.

Bumping the shoulder back is usually only needed if you neck size all the time to reset the shoulder as the brass stretches. You can tell when this is due by either measuring the case in the gauge or by how hard the cartridge is to chamber or extract.

Even though his brass was only once fired, it could still be the problem. The only way to check that brass are still in spec is to drop them into a case gauge after sizing. Since the shooter said some felt snug, this could be from 1) the case is too long or 2) the case was not sized enough.

Normally, you to adjust how much you bump the shoulder back, you get the Hornady comparator and measure several fired cases. then you adjust your die so the sized cases measure 1 thousandth less than the fired cases.

http://www.hornady.com/store/Bullet-Comparator-Kits/

Thanks for the suggestions. Most of my reloading has been with straight-walled cases, both rifle and pistol, so this aspect is new to me. After reading other posts, I found this link for a "Poor Man's Headspace Gauge":
http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2007/07/tech-tip-poor-mans-headspace-gauge/

I can try that over the weekend.

JoeR

Mike3888 · Jan 27, 2017

I've did that technique for a 6.8 in ar platform. Used a 9mm case over neck. Found out I needed 3 thousands for bolt to go into full battery. You would be surprised how different manufacturers of brass will stretch with 1 firing. If your set on neck sizing it's gonna be trial and error to see what best works for you. Good luck and keep us posted on findings

JoeRinMD · Jan 27, 2017

Mike3888 said:
I've did that technique for a 6.8 in ar platform. Used a 9mm case over neck. Found out I needed 3 thousands for bolt to go into full battery. You would be surprised how different manufacturers of brass will stretch with 1 firing. If your set on neck sizing it's gonna be trial and error to see what best works for you. Good luck and keep us posted on findings

From what I quickly read this morning, semis need more "shoulder bump" than bolt actions. I suggested he do neck sizing only since he only has one .243 rifle and I was hoping it would extend case life for him. This time I'll have him bring the rifle over so we can see how well it goes into battery, and also if there's a difference between the Remington and PPU brass.

JoeR

Mike3888 · Jan 27, 2017

It's pretty common for semi's to bump shoulder back, I think I would full length size five and neck size five and trim. Try them and see if problem still exist. If it does you have other issues to deal with, gonna be like a process of elimination. What gun goes your friend have?

molonlabe · Jan 27, 2017

Zman9398 said:
Just had this problem with .223. Get a case gauge from Lyman. Resize the cases and run them through the gauge to make sure the sizing die is set properly. Then after running through the bullet seater/crimper check them again. Adjust your dies accordly. The shoulder on the case may be buldging from improper sizing or there could be too much crimp.

This about covers it. I always mic and trim if needed. Seating and crimping a round should be consistent. One long case and instead of crimping the bullet the shoulder can bulge. These stuck in my M1A until I pulled the bullet resized and trimmed. Lesson I learned years ago.

outrider58 · Jan 28, 2017

molonlabe said:
This about covers it. I always mic and trim if needed. Seating and crimping a round should be consistent. One long case and instead of crimping the bullet the shoulder can bulge. These stuck in my M1A until I pulled the bullet resized and trimmed. Lesson I learned years ago.

This is why I like Sheridan case gauges. They are cut away so when something fails, you can see what the problem is.

JoeRinMD · Jan 28, 2017

New information -- My buddy went back to the range yesterday and did more shooting. First he shot factory-new Remington ammo to make sure it wasn't the rifle...and it wasn't. Then he went on to shoot the reloaded ammo, this time noting which headstamp gave the problem. He said it was the PPU cases that were hard to close the bolt and extract. He also said one of the PPU rounds showed a tiny crease near the shoulder. This week, I'll have him bring the rounds back to my house and well check the length against factory loads. My assumption is that if the shoulder needs a bump, I can do that with the loaded rounds, correct?

BTW, to answer the question asked earlier, the rifle is a Savage Model 110.

Thanks for the help, guys!

JoeR

John from MD · Jan 28, 2017

Joe,

I suggest that you pull the offending bullets before bumping back the shoulder or just let your friend shoot them out. Unlike a short round, those that you loaded won't give you excessive pressure issues.

Aside from pulling bullets with a kinetic puller, I consider manipulating a loaded round in a sizing die to be a risky process.

You deal with risk analysis in your work. You should also us the same process when working with munitions.

Regards,

.243 Winchester stuck cases

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