HPRB July 8, 2019 Meeting Thread

Blacksmith101 · Jul 10, 2019

songlaw said:
This was my first HPRB hearing. I went to observe what I might expect when my appeal comes up for a hearing in about 10 months, or so.

Again, my first one in person. I have observed several hearings that were recorded/broadcast by others here. Thus, I recognize that just about everyone in attendance probably is more knowledgeable than me, with respect to most other aspects. However, with respect to the topic of perjury, I think I am better informed than most.

Having said that, it is my opinion that THERE WAS NO PERJURY, for those up in arms. The question was something like: "Corporal, are you aware of any instance ...?" The answer was not a definite "yes" or "no" but something like "not to my knowledge" or "not that I am aware." There will not be any chance in hell of the corporal being charged, much less being convicted of perjury. Not from what I observed. Not under those facts.

More importantly, it seemed to me that there might be a bigger picture. It appeared to me that the Judge might be trying to save the HPRB. I have checked the previous minutes, and it seemed to me that the board was siding much more often than not with the appellants. Perhaps in excess of 80-90%% of the time, if not more. This is what led to the legislature trying to abolish the HPRB, right? The allegation was that the board was almost a rubber stamp, overturning MSP in almost every instance.

At this hearing, no appellant won outright, and it appeared that, upon submission of additional documents, about two or three might be successful. Frankly, I mean no offense, but most of the appellants made poor presentations. One moment stands out for me: the judge asked: "Do you feel in danger?" The judge is throwing her a bone! The clear answer was "Yes!" However, she answered in the negative. They almost certainly would have benefited by hiring counsel. I did think one guy (the plumber) made a strong argument, but was denied. That was a surprise to me.

What's my point? What if, after seeing that the appellant's winning percentage is dramatically decreased with the new board, the legislature is not inclined to not come back in the next session to continue its pursuit of repealing the HPRB? Could that be the goal of the current board?

I could be wrong, but it appeared to me that there was more at play. It remains to be seen, but I wonder if MSP's appealing every case to the OAH might decrease, as well.

I hope that there is a HPRB when my case comes up for a hearing.

It was nice meeting several MDS members.

To see a real rubber stamp you need to go back the the HPRB before citizens started attending meetings and questioning how things were done. At that time the "stamp" said WHATEVER THE MSP SAYS. The reason the HPRB overturned MSP 80-90% is because MSP is wrong that many times. That does not include the permit applications that are turned down, probably every day, that are never appealed not to mentioned the thousands of permits never even applied for because the public knows the "fix is in" and the chance of getting fair treatment from the MSP LD is between slim and none unless you are connected. The system is corrupt and the people overseeing the system are also corrupt. "....and bear arms, shall not be infringed."

welder516 · Jul 10, 2019

Amen Blacksmith101 and truth brother

welder516 · Jul 10, 2019

Stoveman said:
https://mdsp.maryland.gov/Organization/Pages/OfficeoftheSuperintendent/InternalAffairsDivision.aspx

Yeah we all know how that works ...

I remember the Bar Assoc. stuff . They can lie when it comes to 2A

Occam · Jul 10, 2019

Another outside-his-restrictions arrest a week ago, in OC. Not arrested for brandishing or assault, but for carrying - with his permit - while outside "to and from work" restrictions (presuming the reporting is accurate - which is a poor assumption).

https://mdcoastdispatch.com/2019/07/10/fishing-pier-assault-involves-knife-gun

songlaw · Jul 10, 2019

Stoveman said:
The former MSP LD Commander just asked Corporal Taylor how many permit holders have been arrested for carrying outside their restrictions. None was the answer.

He then looked at the applicant and said "there, does that make you feel better?"

I SHIT YOU NOT!`

The response to this should have been "No. It doesn't. If there will not be arrests for carrying outside their restrictions, WHY NOT REMOVE THE RESTRICTIONS?"

Just because adultery, for example, is never prosecuted, it is still a crime. You COULD be prosecuted.

Or "Can the Corporal or MSP GUARANTEE that I will not be arrested for carrying outside my restrictions? Then, I will feel better. If not, it does not make me feel better."

If the appellants had counsel, perhaps they would have responded to these silly "does that make you feel better?" type b/s questions.

GTOGUNNER · Jul 10, 2019

Occam said:
Another outside-his-restrictions arrest a week ago, in OC. Not arrested for brandishing or assault, but for carrying - with his permit - while outside "to and from work" restrictions (presuming the reporting is accurate - which is a poor assumption).

https://mdcoastdispatch.com/2019/07/10/fishing-pier-assault-involves-knife-gun

Piss poor reporting re (to and from work" ) While being a PI? Not to mention, New permits with restrictions have " CONTACT MD GUN CENTER PRIOR TO LAW ENFORCEMENT ACTION" on permits,, don't recall in being on older permits.

Stoveman · Jul 10, 2019

GTOGUNNER said:
Piss poor reporting re (to and from work" ) While being a PI? Not to mention, New permits with restrictions have " CONTACT MD GUN CENTER PRIOR TO LAW ENFORCEMENT ACTION" on permits,, don't recall in being on older permits.

Three permits? Busy guy.

When asked if he had a carry permit, Hudler told police he did and presented his driver’s license, Maryland concealed carry permit, a Maryland security officer permit and a Maryland private detective permit. According to police reports, the concealed carry permit had restrictions on it that only allowed Hudler to carry the handgun while traveling to and from work.

Stoveman · Jul 10, 2019

Apparently the LD is so massive that Corporal Taylor must have missed hearing about this incident that occurred on 3 July.

Around 11:15 p.m. last Wednesday, an Ocean City Police Department (OCPD) officer was on bicycle patrol in the downtown Boardwalk area when he was dispatched to the Ocean City Fishing Pier for a report of a male suspect, later identified as Shawn Drummond, 41, of Pittsburgh, Pa., pulling a knife and threatening to assault another man, later identified as Kevin Hudler, 30, of Pasadena.

Hudler was arrested for carry a handgun and carrying a loaded handgun on his person.

CrueChief · Jul 10, 2019

Stoveman said:
Apparently the LD is so massive that Corporal Taylor must have missed hearing about this incident that occurred on 3 July.

There must be an office directive to NEVER discuss any of these stories. :innocent0

Mightydog · Jul 10, 2019

CrueChief said:
There must be an office directive to NEVER discuss any of these stories.

You mean sorta like this?

motorcoachdoug · Jul 10, 2019

Stoveman said:
https://mdsp.maryland.gov/Organization/Pages/OfficeoftheSuperintendent/InternalAffairsDivision.aspx

Time to start filling those out even if its before the board where their will be witness and no way for the officer to deny it..It is time to present proof that MSP Lic Div officers do Lie under oath....

Magnumst · Jul 10, 2019

motorcoachdoug said:
Time to start filling those out even if its before the board where their will be witness and no way for the officer to deny it..It is time to present proof that MSP Lic Div officers do Lie under oath....

I'm sure LD have been schooled by the Hillary Clinton school of how to answer questions under oath. " I don't recall, remember, recollect or what differnce does it make" and then will be investigated by Herr Frosh's underlings.

Not_an_outlaw · Jul 10, 2019

Magnumst said:
I'm sure LD have been schooled by the Hillary Clinton school of how to answer questions under oath. " I don't recall, remember, recollect or what differnce does it make" and then will be investigated by Herr Frosh's underlings.

It doesn't seem like a cross examination is permitted. But maybe we can get a clearer question asked with some follow-up.

Tungsten · Jul 10, 2019

songlaw said:
What's my point? What if, after seeing that the appellant's winning percentage is dramatically decreased with the new board, the legislature is not inclined to not come back in the next session to continue its pursuit of repealing the HPRB? Could that be the goal of the current board?

The legislature doesn't care what happens. They will do as they are told by the gun grabbers financing their campaigns.

It remains to be seen, but I wonder if MSP's appealing every case to the OAH might decrease, as well.

I don't understand that sentence at all. If citizens lose all the cases at the HPRB, then MSP won't appeal to the OAH..... how does that help us in any way?

PJDiesel · Jul 10, 2019

What a cluster dick.

I forgot all about the meeting (again), looks like I didn't miss much. :sad20:

I'm 99% sure I'm just gonna let mine lapse this time, fvck the dumb shit.

songlaw · Jul 10, 2019

Tungsten said:
The legislature doesn't care what happens. They will do as they are told by the gun grabbers financing their campaigns.

I don't understand that sentence at all. If citizens lose all the cases at the HPRB, then MSP won't appeal to the OAH..... how does that help us in any way?

If you reread, although no appellant prevailed, there were several cases that were stetted, to allow submission of supplemental documents, and they seemed likely to prevail.
So, they did not all lose. No one won, but several will win, if they follow up.

MSP stated to the judge that if they submitted additional docs, they would be approved.
I understand that MSP has been appealing every win by the appellant to OAH. If only 2 or 3 win, I wondered if MSP would be less inclined to appeal those 2 or 3. For the few winners, it seems to me that the likelihood of an appeal to OAH will decrease.
In that way, it helps those few.
So it helps those who prevail.

CrueChief · Jul 10, 2019

Mightydog said:
You mean sorta like this?

Yes exactly like that.

Stoveman · Jul 10, 2019

PJDiesel said:
What a cluster dick.

I forgot all about the meeting (again), looks like I didn't miss much.

I'm 99% sure I'm just gonna let mine lapse this time, fvck the dumb shit.

Dingo3 · Jul 10, 2019

songlaw said:
If you reread, although no appellant prevailed, there were several cases that were stetted, to allow submission of supplemental documents, and they seemed likely to prevail.
So, they did not all lose. No one won, but several will win, if they follow up.

MSP stated to the judge that if they submitted additional docs, they would be approved.
I understand that MSP has been appealing every win by the appellant to OAH. If only 2 or 3 win, I wondered if MSP would be less inclined to appeal those 2 or 3. For the few winners, it seems to me that the likelihood of an appeal to OAH will decrease.
In that way, it helps those few.
So it helps those who prevail.

MSP will appeal every loss they have at the board. If they needed additional documents, why not request them of the applicants prior to the HPRB hearing (months long backlog) and issue or amend the permits right away? Not buying this crap with a stolen wooden nickel. They are as full of crap as Port-a-John Row used to be at the Preakness infield.

songlaw · Jul 10, 2019

Dingo3 said:
MSP will appeal every loss they have at the board. If they needed additional documents, why not request them of the applicants prior to the HPRB hearing (months long backlog) and issue or amend the permits right away? Not buying this crap with a stolen wooden nickel. They are as full of crap as Port-a-John Row used to be at the Preakness infield.

In a line of questioning, the Judge led the MSP to admit that they would approve, if the appellant would submit further docs.
Example: Judge: “If Mr. X submits Document Y within 30 days, would he be approved?” Sgt.: “Yes.”

In this way, it was not the board that made a decision overturning the MSP, but presumably, the MSP reconsidering and approving. For those limited cases, MSP is not going to appeal their own decision.

In some cases, I thought the judge was pretty masterful, leading MSP in a particular direction. It was as if he led MSP to a decision, while not making the decision himself. He made it look like MSP made the decision.

I know that comment is not gonna go over well here.

HPRB July 8, 2019 Meeting Thread

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