Wear & Carry Permit Rules for Gun Placement?

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  • buktseat

    Shootist, Gent, Scholar
    Sep 30, 2014
    27
    Westminster
    So I've had a wear and carry permit for about a year now. When I took the requisite training course, the instructor informed me that any gun I'm carrying must indeed be "on my person" at all times. He said it can't be in a concealed location in the car when I'm driving it, it can't be in a bag, etc.

    Historically I've just accepted this. But it occurs to me that I'd like to carry a 300BLK "pistol" as a truck gun, and I figure as someone who's allowed to carry a handgun, this may be attainable and legal.

    Long story short, does anyone have a link to the actual laws/rules as written and followed by MSP regarding how and where I'm allowed to carry a gun with my Maryland Wear and Carry Permit?
     

    Occam

    Not Even ONE Indictment
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 24, 2018
    20,239
    Montgomery County
    Yes, something definitive on this would be interesting, as I also come across wildly conflicting assertions. Depending on what's happening, I might be inclined to carry in a pocket, or IWB, or OWB, or in a sling bag with other stuff. If I'm climbing into the vehicle, I'd be inclined to transfer that weapon to more convenient (and, while seated, accessible) spot. If I'm carrying in a sling/messenger bag, that would typically land somewhere in the vehicle easily reached from the driver's seat. I can't believe that it's legal to carry on your person in a bag while walking about, but naughty to dismount that bag and have to holster while driving.

    Also brings up the question of whether and how it's cool to have, say, a piece in your cargo shorts pocket ... and a backup in a bag (or vice versa, depending on how you look at it).

    I've been amazed at how many web sites and forums there are giving advice and listing the rules on this sort of thing, and which arrive at an absolutely useless non-consensus when taken as a whole, even if you leave out the obvious Joe-Blow's-Opinion comments. I've also been struck by how many officially certified instructors will offer up conflicting guidance (not on tactics, etc., but on "stuff you gotta do") on every single aspect of carrying in MD.
     

    Chris

    Ultimate Member
    Industry Partner
    Jun 21, 2005
    2,128
    Cecil Co, Maryland
    My latest permit is titled "Permit to carry a HANDGUN" and that I must have the permit with me when "a handgun is carried, worn or transported". There have been a few times when I was transporting a loaded carbine but that was for a business related carry (riot time). I doubt if any LEO would have a problem as long as you/myself treated him/her with the due respect without an attitude. Chris
     

    TexDefender

    Ultimate Member
    Feb 28, 2017
    1,572
    I would wager the instructor told you that any gun you're carrying must be "on my person" at all times, is the best advise to keep you and him (his business) out of potential legal trouble and maybe fatal trouble. I don't remember the exact wording, but I believe in Maryland the transportation of a firearm is very limited. It's like to and from a range, to and from a competition, to and from a gunsmith or shop and a few others. Granted you have a conceal carry permit, so you are allowed to carrying it on your person hence it containing the wording "a handgun is carried, worn or transported". But it would take only one Froshism (is that a word) or Frosh disciple to potentially land you in court and accessing legal fees. Assuming they would use the letter of the law vs the spirit of the law in which it was written. (Walking with it, is transporting) I, myself would like to know as well. I would love to carry all the time, but then there are places you can't. Many of these places I feel are places were terrorist (domestic or foreign) would strike: buses, Metro, military installations, etc. I was considering having pistol safe welded to my vehicle, but then thought I would run afoul of Maryland's Transport law.
     

    Chris

    Ultimate Member
    Industry Partner
    Jun 21, 2005
    2,128
    Cecil Co, Maryland
    The part of Maryland law that covers permits is Article 5 section 303. Not that it will help much in answering your question. Chris
     

    kenpo333

    Ultimate Member
    Industry Partner
    MDS Supporter
    Mar 18, 2012
    3,322
    Salisbury Maryland
    Wear and Carry tells you alot. Women can get away with a pocketbook carry so I guess you can go with a tennis racket bag or the 300blkout.
     

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    rbird7282

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Dec 6, 2012
    18,538
    Columbia
    No no, I'm good. I'm just looking for official paper from the state on what is and isn't legal. Thanks for your input, though.



    Good luck with that. Ask the State 5 different times and you’ll probably get 5 different answers


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     

    Rab1515

    Ultimate Member
    Patriot Picket
    Apr 29, 2014
    2,081
    Calvert
    There is nothing prohibiting off body carry when you have a permit for handguns. Loaded rifles are a no go for vehicles even with a permit, but handguns are okay to be loaded, again with a permit.
    MSP has links to the statutes of what you can and cannot (mostly cannot) do, but you must read the actual law, there are several cases where MSP claims firearms are prohibited but the law says otherwise.

    Here under where firearms are prohibated. http://mdsp.maryland.gov/Organizati...singDivision/Firearms/WearandCarryPermit.aspx
     

    buktseat

    Shootist, Gent, Scholar
    Sep 30, 2014
    27
    Westminster
    In general laws tell you what you can't do, not what you can do

    Agreed! So I'm hoping someone can guide me to any law that details ways in which you may *not* carry as a permit holder. In general, does the permit negate the laws regarding transport of a weapon? I mean, it seems at least implied, out of necessity. But cops can be jerks, and prosecutors can be even jerkier.
     

    Biggfoot44

    Ultimate Member
    Aug 2, 2009
    32,884
    The statute dosen't have limits to the manner of Wearing & Carrying .

    Approaching from the other direction, the case law for 4-203 ( and predecessor statutes ) are just rife with convictions of people with their roscoe ( used facetiously) in their vehicle not on person, packs and bags, etc . So the breadth of different modes of w'ing & c'ing is established as very inclusive.


    Added - It would seem your instructor got way into left field with his paraphrasing .
     

    bobwilley

    MD Wear/Carry Permit G19
    Feb 4, 2018
    21
    Delmarva Peninsula
    Glad this was brought up.
    Just to clarify, if you have business right on Wear/Carry Permit

    Can you have a combination lock box, affixed say underneath a seat,
    with revolver and your CASH for purchasing items.
    So handgun would not always be on your person, but in vehicle.

    Also for times, when you go into a building, like a courthouse, etc. where the handgun cannot be on your person.
    You would need to remove it and store it somewhere, so would the Combination Lockbox be adequate
    and of course, the real test, keep me out of jail.
     

    doublins

    Active Member
    Dec 16, 2015
    105
    AA County
    Glad this was brought up.
    Just to clarify, if you have business right on Wear/Carry Permit

    Can you have a combination lock box, affixed say underneath a seat,
    with revolver and your CASH for purchasing items.
    So handgun would not always be on your person, but in vehicle.

    Also for times, when you go into a building, like a courthouse, etc. where the handgun cannot be on your person.
    You would need to remove it and store it somewhere, so would the Combination Lockbox be adequate
    and of course, the real test, keep me out of jail.

    For the times you believe you are covered by your restrictions:
    Honestly, so long as you make a good faith effort to abide by whatever your restrictions are, you would be very unlikely to have an encounter with police in which you found yourself in trouble. Even if you did, a lawyer would likely shred the state's case in court.

    For times when you know you can't carry/transport:
    Have a locking safe somewhere in your car, stow the firearm, and don't say anything about it- there are no reasonable situations in which any officer would be granted access to a locked safe inside your vehicle, without some indication of what might be inside, without a warrant. Even during a search incident to arrest for some other offense such as a DUI, etc, they would not be able to break into a locked safe without a warrant so long as they have no reasonable suspicion of what its contents are and evidence of a crime.

    I think everyone worries too much, frankly.
     

    ras_oscar

    Ultimate Member
    Apr 23, 2014
    1,666
    For the times you believe you are covered by your restrictions:
    Honestly, so long as you make a good faith effort to abide by whatever your restrictions are, you would be very unlikely to have an encounter with police in which you found yourself in trouble. Even if you did, a lawyer would likely shred the state's case in court.

    For times when you know you can't carry/transport:
    Have a locking safe somewhere in your car, stow the firearm, and don't say anything about it- there are no reasonable situations in which any officer would be granted access to a locked safe inside your vehicle, without some indication of what might be inside, without a warrant. Even during a search incident to arrest for some other offense such as a DUI, etc, they would not be able to break into a locked safe without a warrant so long as they have no reasonable suspicion of what its contents are and evidence of a crime.

    I think everyone worries too much, frankly.

    BGOS
     

    buktseat

    Shootist, Gent, Scholar
    Sep 30, 2014
    27
    Westminster
    The statute dosen't have limits to the manner of Wearing & Carrying .

    Approaching from the other direction, the case law for 4-203 ( and predecessor statutes ) are just rife with convictions of people with their roscoe ( used facetiously) in their vehicle not on person, packs and bags, etc . So the breadth of different modes of w'ing & c'ing is established as very inclusive.


    Added - It would seem your instructor got way into left field with his paraphrasing .
    If the system is rife with convictions, how does that support the assertion that different modes of carry are acceptable? I don't think I'm getting your meaning, but this is the closest thing I've gotten to a thoughtful response so I'd love it if you could expand on what you're saying!
     

    shmuel2004

    Banned
    BANNED!!!
    Jun 1, 2016
    140
    Pikesville, MD
    Based on my research, the CCW permit does allow for open carry, off body carry (duh), and transporting in a vehicle. Here is what I found:

    The law that criminalizes carrying without a permit says:

    (a)(1) Except as provided in subsection (b) of this section, a person may not:
    (i) wear, carry, or transport a handgun, whether concealed or open, on or about the person;

    Md. Crim. Law Code Ann. § 4-203

    The exception is a carry permit. So the law says no open carry, but the exception does not specify open of concealed, it just says you can carry if you have a permit:

    Exceptions
    (b) This section does not prohibit:

    (2) the wearing, carrying, or transporting of a handgun, in compliance with any limitations imposed under § 5-307 of the Public Safety Article, by a person to whom a permit to wear, carry, or transport the handgun has been issued under Title 5, Subtitle 3 of the Public Safety Article;


    The word "conceal" does not appear at all in the Public Safety article with regard to CCW permits. Also, an obvious proof is that security guards obtain a permit under the same article, and they obviously can open carry. Same goes for transporting in a car. The law says transport, which certainly means transporting in a vehicle.

    So yes, I think you can open carry if you have a permit and you can also unholster and drop it in the glove box.
     

    shmuel2004

    Banned
    BANNED!!!
    Jun 1, 2016
    140
    Pikesville, MD
    Your CCW permit covers SBR and SBS. It should also cover any other firearm the State treats like a handgun. See below for the specific statutes.

    (c) “Handgun” has the meaning stated in § 4-201 of the Criminal Law Article.

    MD PUBLIC SAFETY § 5-301


    (c)(1) “Handgun” means a pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed on the person.
    (2) “Handgun” includes a short-barreled shotgun and a short-barreled rifle.
    (3) “Handgun” does not include a shotgun, rifle, or antique firearm.

    Md. Crim. Law Code Ann. § 4-201
     

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