Your new SKS and 922R Compliance for the new shooter

toolness1 · Jun 22, 2015

People really need to become more aware of this law, especially if they start enforcing it in the future. I see people violating this law ALL THE TIME.

I went to my LGS the other day, he had a Russian SKS on the table with a big 40 round magazine hanging out of it. A guy paid him to modify the stock to fit the mag (sad, sad, sad) So, the store owner was violating 922r right there on his front table for all to see, and had no clue about the law when I asked him.

I see SKS's for sale on gun broker all the time obviously violating 922r, I see them at gun shows, guys at the range, etc.

It will be hard for them to enforce this, one way would be having ATF guys monitor online auctions and forum posts possibly? Or sending agents for random range trips... Also, educating local law enforcement of the rule so they can check any time they stop someone and see a SKS or AK in the car...

It will be interesting to see if anything happens with it. But so far, nobody has ever heard of anyone being convicted under it.

I bought a Saiga and converted it myself, and luckily ran into forum posts about 922r before I got started. Otherwise I would have definitely violated it and been short a few parts.

Machodoc · Jun 22, 2015

toolness1 said:
It will be hard for them to enforce this, one way would be having ATF guys monitor online auctions and forum posts possibly? Or sending agents for random range trips...

Yep, but federal agencies like to use the approach of "sending a message to the rest" by really slamming some people for this sort of violation. I'd hate to be the poor sap who had the misfortune of being picked by them to set an example. Best to know, and follow, the law. It's yet another reason to not alter a C&R firearm.

Melnic · Jun 22, 2015

does this apply to sales or possession?

Is this a good location to read the wording of 922r which does not seem to be verbatim to what is in the OP?
http://922r.com/

It says "if the assembled firearm is prohibited from importation under section 925(d)(3) as not being particularly suitable for or readily adaptable to sporting purposes."

Hmm, that's rather subjective. I've seen several reviews of people using an SKS to hunt with.

lordphoenix140 · Jun 22, 2015

Machodoc said:
More germane to this thread, though, is that an SKS loses its C&R status easily if you start swapping parts with some that are not original or reproduction of the originals. Changing the sights, for example, is permitted, but putting a "tactical" plastic stock on it makes it no longer a C&R rifle.

Despite the thread being in the C&R forum the OP wasn't about C&R rifles but about general 922r compliance. I wanted to clarify some misunderstandings I was seeing because this is currently the 4th result when you google "SKS 922r compliance".

Vile Shadow · Jun 22, 2015

toolness1 said:
People really need to become more aware of this law, especially if they start enforcing it in the future. I see people violating this law ALL THE TIME.

I went to my LGS the other day, he had a Russian SKS on the table with a big 40 round magazine hanging out of it. A guy paid him to modify the stock to fit the mag (sad, sad, sad) So, the store owner was violating 922r right there on his front table for all to see, and had no clue about the law when I asked him.

I see SKS's for sale on gun broker all the time obviously violating 922r, I see them at gun shows, guys at the range, etc.

It will be hard for them to enforce this, one way would be having ATF guys monitor online auctions and forum posts possibly? Or sending agents for random range trips... Also, educating local law enforcement of the rule so they can check any time they stop someone and see a SKS or AK in the car...

It will be interesting to see if anything happens with it. But so far, nobody has ever heard of anyone being convicted under it.

I bought a Saiga and converted it myself, and luckily ran into forum posts about 922r before I got started. Otherwise I would have definitely violated it and been short a few parts.

That will be all but impossible to enforce, like most gun laws. No LEO, or gooberment agent, will be able to tell what parts are foreign made and which aren't.

The only folks that will be taking part in any of that will likely be FFL's.

Straightbolt · Jun 22, 2015

Sling Blade said:
That will be all but impossible to enforce, like most gun laws. No LEO, or gooberment agent, will be able to tell what parts are foreign made and which aren't.

The only folks that will be taking part in any of that will likely be FFL's.

SKS parts like gas piston OP rod etc that are made in the USA are stamped Made In The USA for just that reason.

In truth anyone charged with 922r violations will be someone targeted by the ATF in a sting or raid and will likely have a whole slew of other more serious firearms charges.

toolness1 · Jun 22, 2015

Straightbolt said:
SKS parts like gas piston OP rod etc that are made in the USA are stamped Made In The USA for just that reason.

In truth anyone charged with 922r violations will be someone targeted by the ATF in a sting or raid and will likely have a whole slew of other more serious firearms charges.

Most US made parts are marked as such, but I have seen hand guards for example that aren't.

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Vile Shadow · Jun 23, 2015

toolness1 said:
Most US made parts are marked as such, but I have seen hand guards for example that aren't.

Exactly my point.

The burden of proof is on the state in such matters. It is up to them to prove what parts of someone's rifle are foreign. If the gooberment decides they have time for this sort of nonsense, then something is VERY wrong.

Straightbolt · Jun 23, 2015

toolness1 said:
Most US made parts are marked as such, but I have seen hand guards for example that aren't.

Sent from my XT901 using Tapatalk

Just out of curiosity what makes you suspect or know these hand guards were made in the USA ?
I would say if it's not marked USA you can assume it's not made here.
Just because it's an American company certainly doesn't mean they don't use foreign contractors to manufacture their parts.

toolness1 · Jun 23, 2015

Straightbolt said:
Just out of curiosity what makes you suspect or know these hand guards were made in the USA ?
I would say if it's not marked USA you can assume it's not made here.
Just because it's an American company certainly doesn't mean they don't use foreign contractors to manufacture their parts.

You are right, I am just saying the product was specifically advertised as made in the USA

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smdub · Jun 23, 2015

Straightbolt said:
I would say if it's not marked USA you can assume it's not made here.

Thats silly (both ways). Even if its marked USA there is ZERO guarantee that's its actually made here - you only have the seller saying so. Plus a LOT of parts are US made w/o being marked as such.

Are muzzle devices marked? None that I have (and many are made in the US.) Barrels typ don't have place of manufacture. I'm pretty sure some of my ARs dont have "USA" on a single part, yet I trust they're almost entirely made in the US because of the parts manufacturer said so. Gieselle only prints it on the trigger and not the hammer or disconnector IIRC. Tapco typ marks their parts but its not a legal requirement. I'll give you that most companies making stuff associated w/ 922r compliance do it to be nice. But my point is that not all parts are always marked.

lordphoenix140 · Jun 23, 2015

Melnic said:
does this apply to sales or possession?

Neither. It applies only to *assembly* of a firearm, but swapping out a foreign part for a US part qualifies as "assembly". The problem is, if you acquired the gun in its illegal condition and didn't modify it yourself how do you prove that?

See exact text below:

Sec. 178.39 Assembly of semiautomatic rifles or shotguns.

(a) No person shall assemble a semiautomatic rifle or any shotgun using more than 10 of the imported parts listed in paragraph (c) of this section if the assembled firearm is prohibited from importation under section 925(d)(3) as not being particularly suitable for or readily adaptable to sporting purposes.

For C&R people, you can repair your C&R firearm without violating this law. See below:

(b) The provisions of this section shall not apply to:

(3) The repair of any rifle or shotgun which had been imported into or assembled in the United States prior to November 30, 1990, or the replacement of any part of such firearm.

lordphoenix140 · Jun 23, 2015

toolness1 said:
People really need to become more aware of this law, especially if they start enforcing it in the future. I see people violating this law ALL THE TIME.

....

It will be hard for them to enforce this...

I can see law enforcement using this to bust people they can't find anything else on, especially in "assault rifle" unfriendly states.

Straightbolt · Jun 23, 2015

smdub said:
Thats silly (both ways). Even if its marked USA there is ZERO guarantee that's its actually made here - you only have the seller saying so. Plus a LOT of parts are US made w/o being marked as such.

Are muzzle devices marked? None that I have (and many are made in the US.) Barrels typ don't have place of manufacture. I'm pretty sure some of my ARs dont have "USA" on a single part, yet I trust they're almost entirely made in the US because of the parts manufacturer said so. Gieselle only prints it on the trigger and not the hammer or disconnector IIRC. Tapco typ marks their parts but its not a legal requirement. I'll give you that most companies making stuff associated w/ 922r compliance do it to be nice. But my point is that not all parts are always marked.

As far as that goes ultimately you have no "proof" knowing where anything is made unless you personally witness it's construction. In GOD I trust all others can lie.
The reason Tapco stamps those parts USA is because they are considered one of the official 922r compliance parts and they don't do it to be nice they do it to sell more parts to people fretting over 922r regs.. Muzzle devises to my knowledge don't count as a 922r compliance part unless it's permanently attached in order to achieve correct barrel length like in those AMD-65 barrels. AR parts don't have to stamp the parts USA because the rifles are made in the USA and not imported.

Machodoc · Jun 23, 2015

lordphoenix140 said:
For C&R people, you can repair your C&R firearm without violating this law. See below:

(b) The provisions of this section shall not apply to:

(3) The repair of any rifle or shotgun which had been imported into or assembled in the United States prior to November 30, 1990, or the replacement of any part of such firearm.

Yep, but just to be clear, that doesn't mean that you can "repair" a C&R with non-original, or at least reproduction of original, parts.

[Edit: Should have read, "... that doesn't mean that you can "repair" a C&R with non-original parts of just any type. They have to be original, or at least reproduction of original, parts."]

smdub · Jun 23, 2015

Straightbolt said:
Muzzle devises to my knowledge don't count as a 922r compliance part unless it's permanently attached in order to achieve correct barrel length like in those AMD-65 barrels. AR parts don't have to stamp the parts USA because the rifles are made in the USA and not imported.

Muzzle device is one of the 922r counted parts.
http://www.tapco.com/section922r/

I was thinking AK muzzle devices when I wrote that but I see I forgot to mention it. I have some CNC Warrior/etc brakes for my AKs and VEPR that claim made in the USA but dont have anything marked on them.

Per the AR & 922r: Makes *NO* difference where the receiver is made. You are allowed 10 foreign made parts. Only exception is an imported rifle can be more *IF* it stays as originally imported. When I use a US made AK (or HK) receiver I can only use up to 10 foreign parts to finish it. ARs are the same: You can't put more than 10 foreign parts on a Colt AR receiver. You don't normally think of it this way since its hard to reach the 10 part limit but I'm sure its possible if you try hard enough. FN barrel(1), foreign mag(3), ??? Im sure the Israeli's or HK make some more parts that you could use to get another 7

somd_mustangs · Jun 23, 2015

Machodoc said:
Yep, but just to be clear, that doesn't mean that you can "repair" a C&R with non-original, or at least reproduction of original, parts.

That ATF quote would seem to indicate that you can use non-original / repro parts as long as they are to original spec.?

Vile Shadow · Jun 23, 2015

somd_mustangs said:
That ATF quote would seem to indicate that you can use non-original / repro parts as long as they are to original spec.?

That's how I read the second paragraph.

Machodoc · Jun 24, 2015

somd_mustangs said:
That ATF quote would seem to indicate that you can use non-original / repro parts as long as they are to original spec.?

Sling Blade said:
That's how I read the second paragraph.

You are both correct. My wording sucked. I meant that you have to use original or to-spec reproduction parts in order for it to still be C&R. You can't, for example, "repair" an SKS with a broken stock by putting on a plastic tacti-kewl stock and still have it be C&R eligible.

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