Leupold on a Moose rifle.

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  • Mendicant

    Member
    Aug 11, 2015
    41
    Baltimore/Silver Spring
    Good day friends.

    I am planning to have my first road trip hunt, all the way up to the Last Frontier.

    My first instinct was to get some big honking elephant rifle. But after doing my online research and looking at the kind of ground we will be covering (a week in tents and walking with a pack frame) it became clear that what I needed was something a bit more practical to carry. There is also the probability that I will be going elk hunting out west a few times in the coming years, so I will be doing a lot of scrambling up the side of a mountain. Most of my deer hunting happens in Frederick county so I already know how difficult it can be hauling the heavier rifles up a long hill when you are carrying a tree stand.

    Rather than going the custom route, I selected what is basically the lightest hunting rifle off the shelf, the Kimber Mountain Ascent. Weighing in at a mere 4 bs 13 oz when chambered in .308 and 6.5 Creedmoor, those aren't exactly the most suitable calibers for knocking down a bull moose. So I made a slight sacrifice on 8 oz of weight and upped it to the .30-06 to give myself a nominal increase of KE and a heavier bullet to put a hurting where it needs to hurt. I could have gone all out with the .300 win mag, but I already own one of those in my 9 lb Ruger M77. Now I love my recoil as much as the next guy, but I have no need to sight that caliber in on a 6 lb gun. With weapon and ammo selected, I went straight to m̶y̶ ̶l̶o̶c̶a̶l̶ ̶g̶u̶n̶ ̶s̶h̶o̶p̶ Gunbroker and purchased one for 60% of MSRP. https://www.gunbroker.com/item/810882141

    But now to the thrust of my post. A lightweight rifle needs lightweight optics. To that end, there are only a few players in town. The Swarovski Z3 3-9x36 is 12 oz and brings a lot to the table, including a big pricetag. The lightest scope of suitable quality is the Leupold FX-II Ultralight 2.5x20mm at only 6.5 oz. The problem with that one is that the aperture simply is too small to collect adequate light for hunting dawn and dusk, when moose are most active. The compromise I went with for weight, capability, and price was the Leupold VX-Freedom 2-7x33, at 11 oz. After buying one off Amazon, I saw they have a similar model with the same model designed for rimfire, which I also purchased. The main difference, aside from optimal eye relief distance, is the reticle window. Below is the standard to the left, and the rimfire to the right.

    34rt06w.jpg


    There is a possibility I could return one, but I don't see the great trouble in having an extra Leupold lying around. Never know when I might need one. The real question is which of these two should I install on my new Kimber? I like the idea of having the extra tic marks available for range adjustment, but I can see how they might provide an element of complication when I have a moose in front of me. Which would you go with?
     

    Doco Overboard

    Ultimate Member
    The one on the left for two reasons. The first one is sometimes heavier cross hares are easier to see at dusk, especially if it's "graying" outside, at least for me. The other is he may be close enough to bow shoot and the heavier wires may be easier to pick up in timber.
    Others I'm sure will have a different take and valid points for the choice.
     

    Mendicant

    Member
    Aug 11, 2015
    41
    Baltimore/Silver Spring
    Thank you, DO.

    I will also add to my post in having read through the owner's manuals, the other difference between the two is the parallax distance. The rifle scope is set to be parallax free at 150 yards, while the rimfire is set to 60 yards. At the maximum of 7x magnification and the distances that a novice such as myself is qualified to ethically shoot game, the parallax effect would only have 2-3" displacement on the target. Nevertheless, it is worth at least noting.
     

    MeatGrinder

    Ultimate Member
    Jul 27, 2013
    2,379
    MoCo, Eastern edge
    You want the one on the left for sure. For hunting, one needs simple and fast. When the cross hairs hit the should crease, the rifle should be going off. No dicking around with tiny adjustments that don't matter and waste time. Also, did you say rimfire? You were considering putting a rimfire scope on your moose gun? Hopefully I read that wrong.

    My moose, and elk, were killed with a cheap from WalMart 300WSM with nikon 3x9x40, I think Buckmaster.

    What is the exact difference in weight between a standard scope and a lighweight scope? I am guessing not a huge amount.
     

    E.Shell

    Ultimate Member
    Feb 5, 2007
    10,242
    Mid-Merlind
    Thank you, DO.

    I will also add to my post in having read through the owner's manuals, the other difference between the two is the parallax distance. The rifle scope is set to be parallax free at 150 yards, while the rimfire is set to 60 yards. At the maximum of 7x magnification and the distances that a novice such as myself is qualified to ethically shoot game, the parallax effect would only have 2-3" displacement on the target. Nevertheless, it is worth at least noting.
    Parallax can be pre-set to the desired distance by the factory service department (so easy, they might do it for free) and can sometimes be done by the user.

    In the cover/distances you're talking about, having the parallax preset to 60 yards is not going to be a disadvantage.

    I have a 2-7x Leupold with the heavy crosshair on my deer shotgun and love it.
     

    Mendicant

    Member
    Aug 11, 2015
    41
    Baltimore/Silver Spring
    You want the one on the left for sure. For hunting, one needs simple and fast. When the cross hairs hit the should crease, the rifle should be going off. No dicking around with tiny adjustments that don't matter and waste time.

    Thank you MeatGrinder, I will consider your advice.

    Also, did you say rimfire? You were considering putting a rimfire scope on your moose gun? Hopefully I read that wrong.

    Why yes. Yes I did say "rimfire." What you have to remember is, that this thing is a Leupold. No mere .30-06 will shake it apart. In fact, all of the mechanicals for both scopes are completely identical. The only difference between the two is the reticle pattern, and the parallax is set for shorter range.

    My moose, and elk, were killed with a cheap from WalMart 300WSM with nikon 3x9x40, I think Buckmaster. What is the exact difference in weight between a standard scope and a lighweight scope? I am guessing not a huge amount.

    Nikon makes a fine scope. I have an extra Prostaff around, which I did consider using for this. The Buckmaster comes in a hair over 13 oz. Believe me, if I'm going to spend an extra $600 to buy a Kimber over a nice Winchester Model 70 to save a pound and a half, I'm willing to spend another $150 to save myself 2 oz.
     

    Mendicant

    Member
    Aug 11, 2015
    41
    Baltimore/Silver Spring
    Parallax can be pre-set to the desired distance by the factory service department (so easy, they might do it for free) and can sometimes be done by the user.

    In the cover/distances you're talking about, having the parallax preset to 60 yards is not going to be a disadvantage.

    I have a 2-7x Leupold with the heavy crosshair on my deer shotgun and love it.

    I'm curious, how would the user do it? Typically higher end scopes these days will have a parallax adjustment feature included, but what would you do for a fixed parallax scope?

    Also, using the factory service department means factory prices and not Amazon prices. I'm not the world's biggest fan of paying retail.

    I'm getting a lot of votes for the heavy crosshair here; I think I've got my answer now.
     

    MDHunter

    Ultimate Member
    Mar 12, 2007
    1,207
    Free America
    Be cautious of the potentially limited eye relief on a rimfire scope, don't wan't to get a bad case of scope eye out in the wilderness.

    Where in the state are you hunting, and are you hunting with a guide or going on your own? Alaska's regulations vary widely by game management unit in terms of what constitutes a legal bull moose for non-resident hunters. Some units require a minimum of 50" antler width, or 4 brow tines on a side; some units require 50" or 3 brow tines; and some units are any bull is legal.

    What dates are you hunting? Expect to have temps ranging from highs in the 50s (and possibly 60s on a sunny day) to lows in the 20s (and possibly teens) at night.

    I used to hunt up there with a Winchester Model 70 .30-06, still have that rifle and really like it. I switched to a Ruger Model 77 in .338 Winchester Magnum back in 2006, since we seemed to see plenty of grizzlies each fall. Here's a pic of the nice one we ran off the long ridge where we were camped in 2017; he was within 1/2 mile of camp, and we were going to be there another 10 days, so better to have a standoff in broad daylight versus dancing with him in the dark...

    Good luck, hunting remote Alaska is one big adventure!

    6Gtvfy.jpg
     

    GunBum

    Active Member
    Feb 21, 2018
    751
    SW Missouri
    I have a Leupold 2-7x33 on my 416 Remington Magnum. It’s stood up to over 100 rounds of crushing recoil, and has always been easy to pickup the target fast no matter what light conditions. She’s taken moose, elk, and bear. Someday she’ll take some African game.

    On another note, you don’t really understand hard recoil until you send a 400 grain bullet at 2500 FPS. :party29:
     

    pcfixer

    Ultimate Member
    May 24, 2009
    5,947
    Marylandstan
    30-06 is the great rifle caliber--with 180 gr or 200 gr bullets. NO need for expensive bullets and ammo. Like Doug Marcaida,says on "Forged in Fire" TV....I will KKeeellll.


    BTW a Nikon ProStaff BDC is a great all around scope 4X12 by 40



    Nikon 4-12x40 BDC Scope Kit (16559) is what I use on DPMS 308. great scope with a eye relief 1 1/2
     

    Magnumite

    Ultimate Member
    Dec 17, 2007
    6,561
    Harford County, Maryland
    I'm curious, how would the user do it? Typically higher end scopes these days will have a parallax adjustment feature included, but what would you do for a fixed parallax scope?

    Also, using the factory service department means factory prices and not Amazon prices. I'm not the world's biggest fan of paying retail.

    I'm getting a lot of votes for the heavy crosshair here; I think I've got my answer now.

    You commented on "paying for" the Kimber rifle, willing to pay $150 to save 2 ounces of weight yet you wil forego a factory service fee to set the parallax. To each their own budgets not withstanding. But after all this effort and consideration, wouldn't the extra $$ for the parallax adjustment be worth it to get the set up you actually desire? It will haunt you...
     

    E.Shell

    Ultimate Member
    Feb 5, 2007
    10,242
    Mid-Merlind
    I'm curious, how would the user do it? Typically higher end scopes these days will have a parallax adjustment feature included, but what would you do for a fixed parallax scope?
    In using the word "sometimes" above, I had hoped to convey that not all scopes lend themselves to this user service.

    The parallax adjustment occurs in a fixed parallax scope in exactly the same manner in which parallax is adjusted in an AO scope: the objective lens position is shifted fore/aft to achieve the desired setting. Mechanically speaking, the objective lens carrier is moved via temporarily loosening the forward lock ring and threading the objective lens in /out and re-locking, vs a cam controlling this same motion.
    Also, using the factory service department means factory prices and not Amazon prices. I'm not the world's biggest fan of paying retail.
    How so? Whether you pay retail has nothing to do with having the service department tweak the scope parallax for you so that the device suits its intended purpose. They'll still work on a scope you were gifted, bought at a discounter, or even one you bought used...

    As I had said above, for close range, the parallax setting of 60 yards will not be an issue. It is far more satisfactory to exceed your parallax setting with regard to distance than to try to shorten it up. This is the entire reason that shotgun, muzzleloader and rimfire scopes are set to the closer distances these firearms are typically used for. A centerfire rifle scope with fixed parallax set for 100-150 yards is an absolute disaster when used on a .22 at 25-50 yards. A scope with its parallax setting at 60 yards will be just fine for big game at 100.

    Something many people are unaware of is just how critical parallax becomes in high magnification scopes, vs how forgiving a low powered scope really is. It has to do with the depth of field being critically shortened as we increase magnification. The shorter your depth of field, the more critical its placement, thus the fact that one very seldom finds adjustable parallax on scopes with less than 10x maximum magnification - its importance diminishes with magnification. The 6x scopes used for VFS benchrest are a notable exception, due to the need for utmost precision.
    I'm getting a lot of votes for the heavy crosshair here; I think I've got my answer now.
    Variable light conditions, speed...no other choice unless you like a post. With a good quality, low magnification scope with a reasonable size objective lens, the first portion of the image to disappear with low light will be the finer reticle features.

    Be sure your rifle is adjusted to bring the scope to your eye without having to look for the image. Comb height and LOP are critical to set first, then eye relief.
    You commented on "paying for" the Kimber rifle, willing to pay $150 to save 2 ounces of weight yet you wil forego a factory service fee to set the parallax. To each their own budgets not withstanding. But after all this effort and consideration, wouldn't the extra $$ for the parallax adjustment be worth it to get the set up you actually desire? It will haunt you...
    This too....
     

    atblis

    Ultimate Member
    May 23, 2010
    2,011
    I am a big fan of the Japanese Weavers though admittedly I haven't bought one for quite a while and they might not be the scope they used to be.

    Sightron makes a solid scope. SIII is my current go to.

    Seen too many failures with Nikons to trust one on a hunting rifle.

    Leupold Vx3i 2.5-8x36 is about the perfect hunting scope IMO. Got a couple of those. Compact enough for low enough mounting to allow proper cheek weld.
     

    Mendicant

    Member
    Aug 11, 2015
    41
    Baltimore/Silver Spring
    Where in the state are you hunting, and are you hunting with a guide or going on your own? Alaska's regulations vary widely by game management unit in terms of what constitutes a legal bull moose for non-resident hunters. Some units require a minimum of 50" antler width, or 4 brow tines on a side; some units require 50" or 3 brow tines; and some units are any bull is legal.

    Self-guided, but two in the party have done this before. 20E. As a non-resident, I need 50" antlers or antlers with 4 or more brow tines on at least one side.

    What dates are you hunting? Expect to have temps ranging from highs in the 50s (and possibly 60s on a sunny day) to lows in the 20s (and possibly teens) at night.

    Flights are from Sept. 7-18

    I used to hunt up there with a Winchester Model 70 .30-06, still have that rifle and really like it. I switched to a Ruger Model 77 in .338 Winchester Magnum back in 2006, since we seemed to see plenty of grizzlies each fall. Here's a pic of the nice one we ran off the long ridge where we were camped in 2017; he was within 1/2 mile of camp, and we were going to be there another 10 days, so better to have a standoff in broad daylight versus dancing with him in the dark...

    I will keep that advice in mind.

    Good luck, hunting remote Alaska is one big adventure!

    That is what I am hoping for.
     

    Mendicant

    Member
    Aug 11, 2015
    41
    Baltimore/Silver Spring
    30-06 is the great rifle caliber--with 180 gr or 200 gr bullets. NO need for expensive bullets and ammo. Like Doug Marcaida,says on "Forged in Fire" TV....I will KKeeellll.

    The way I see it, anything that has been around for over a hundred years and is still widely used must be highly effective.

    BTW a Nikon ProStaff BDC is a great all around scope 4X12 by 40

    I haven't used mine yet, but I picked it up from the classifieds over at Maryland Whitetail a few years back. I am certain it will be thrown into circulation one of these seasons.
     

    MDHunter

    Ultimate Member
    Mar 12, 2007
    1,207
    Free America
    Self-guided, but two in the party have done this before. 20E. As a non-resident, I need 50" antlers or antlers with 4 or more brow tines on at least one side. Flights are from Sept. 7-18

    Are you flying out with 40 Mile Air, Zach from Tok Air Service, or someone else? I will be up in that general area, doing a flyout caribou hunt out of Tok this year. We are scheduled to fly out on August 29, fly back to Tok on September 5. The 40 Mile moose hunters typically start flying into the field on August 6, the season starts on August 8 in unit 20 for non-res.

    It can be tough judging the moose in that part of the state. they have some big ones, but typically the antlers bow in just a little, making judging the 50" minimum a little challenging. We always hoped for 4 brow tines, easier to count those than measure 50".

    Good luck, temps have been abnormally warm in Alaska over the past weeks, hope things cool down before hunting season.
     

    Mendicant

    Member
    Aug 11, 2015
    41
    Baltimore/Silver Spring
    Are you flying out with 40 Mile Air, Zach from Tok Air Service, or someone else? I will be up in that general area, doing a flyout caribou hunt out of Tok this year. We are scheduled to fly out on August 29, fly back to Tok on September 5. The 40 Mile moose hunters typically start flying into the field on August 6, the season starts on August 8 in unit 20 for non-res.

    It can be tough judging the moose in that part of the state. they have some big ones, but typically the antlers bow in just a little, making judging the 50" minimum a little challenging. We always hoped for 4 brow tines, easier to count those than measure 50".

    Good luck, temps have been abnormally warm in Alaska over the past weeks, hope things cool down before hunting season.

    I believe the plan is to fly into Fairbanks and drive. One in our party is planning to drive all the way in from Iowa, so we will have a vehicle available. From the road, it is going to be a long, long walk to camp. This is why I want to have the lightest rifle I can get away with.
     

    MDHunter

    Ultimate Member
    Mar 12, 2007
    1,207
    Free America
    I believe the plan is to fly into Fairbanks and drive. One in our party is planning to drive all the way in from Iowa, so we will have a vehicle available. From the road, it is going to be a long, long walk to camp. This is why I want to have the lightest rifle I can get away with.

    Got it - if you don't or haven't typically used trekking poles, considering buying (or borrowing) an inexpensive pair and taking them with you. Makes walking with a loaded pack MUCH easier on the knees. Plus if/when you're packing a load of meat, you can lean over on the poles and give your back and hips a break without having to sit down and stand up again.
     

    midnightSGT

    Active Member
    Oct 17, 2013
    756
    Calvert County
    Which ever scope you choose, be certain that it is 100 percent Fog Proof, and buy flip up caps. You will be getting wet and you dont need fogged up lenses when your
    trying to get a shot of a lifetime! Or, need to save your ass on a charging brown bear!
     

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