Recent Mass Shootings + Medications

jpk1md · Jan 8, 2013

teratos said:
Sure, genius, lets just lock them up. If I were the government you would be one of the first ones I would lock up. You post all these paranoid ramblings on the forum and are clearly in danger of inciting violence. You are out of touch with reality and are exhibiting signs of antisocial personality disorder. Off you go.

Do I believe that? No. See how easily it can be used against you when certain people have rights and certain people don't? You do realize it would be the government making that determination, don't you?

Well if I'm going to be locked up for my postings at least I can count on having good company since you'll more than likely be in the cell next to me (Pot meet kettle :lol2:

)

As I've said over and over its what you DO that is important and is the basis for whether or not you are fit to be free.

Recall the example I posted about "Willy" down in Annapolis?

Anyone that has lived in the Annapolis area and driven up and down West St btwn Annapolis and Parole has seen Willy.....tall skinny african american guy standing on the side of the road vigorously shaking a plastic bag for HOURS on end.

Clearly Willy isn't firing on all cylinders but has he demonstrated that he is a real threat to anyone? Nope.....do I care or am I concerned that he is going to go postal? Not particularly, Should he be locked up? I don't see why.....he's not harming anyone and from what I've been told by an officer I knew in APD he doesn't have a history of harming anyone else......no harm, no foul.

On the other hand if you're lashing out, displaying violent behavior, threatening others you encounter and are subsequently only controllable through medication then off you go.......people too frequently don't take their meds and end up harming innocent people.

We've all got the right to be free right up to the point where you fail to respect the freedom of the next guy or girl........thats the threshold Doc

teratos · Jan 8, 2013

The real question is.....are you OK with Willie having a gun? What if we get concealed carry....should Willie carry his gun as he shakes his bag?

He probably is a nice guy. He probably does not have the judgement to be trusted with a firearm.

jpk1md · Jan 8, 2013

teratos said:
The real question is.....are you OK with Willie having a gun? What if we get concealed carry....should Willie carry his gun as he shakes his bag?

He probably is a nice guy. He probably does not have the judgement to be trusted with a firearm.

He wields that plastic bag pretty well and doesn't hurt anyone

If he has not demonstrated violence towards others then why shouldn't he be allowed like any other citizen

Once you allow for "Partial" citizenship then we're done as a society

I could care less if Willy had a gun provided everyone else were allowed their rkba

teratos · Jan 8, 2013

jpk1md said:
He wields that plastic bag pretty well and doesn't hurt anyone

If he has not demonstrated violence towards others then why shouldn't he be allowed like any other citizen

Once you allow for "Partial" citizenship then we're done as a society

I could care less if Willy had a gun provided everyone else were allowed their rkba

Because his judgement is not intact. Just because a child has never hit one of his fellow classmates, can look both ways before crossing the street, and can microwave a Hot Pocket doesn't mean that child should carry a gun.

jpk1md · Jan 9, 2013

teratos said:
Because his judgement is not intact. Just because a child has never hit one of his fellow classmates, can look both ways before crossing the street, and can microwave a Hot Pocket doesn't mean that child should carry a gun.

If his judgement is so flawed that he cannot be trusted with a firearm then the same goes for most any kitchen utensil, appliance not to mention most anything that could possibly be in the garage or sticks, stones and baseball bats for that matter.

Again....either a person is fit to be in general circulation or they need to be sequestered.

The world is chock full of inanimate objects that can just as easily be used to cause great harm as a firearm.

Its not the inanimate object, its the tool user.

teratos · Jan 9, 2013

jpk1md said:
If his judgement is so flawed that he cannot be trusted with a firearm then the same goes for most any kitchen utensil, appliance not to mention most anything that could possibly be in the garage or sticks, stones and baseball bats for that matter.

Again....either a person is fit to be in general circulation or they need to be sequestered.

The world is chock full of inanimate objects that can just as easily be used to cause great harm as a firearm.

Its not the inanimate object, its the tool user.

Just because you can't keep everything out of his hands doesn't mean you shouldn't restrict his access to firearms. He would also be at risk for negligent discharges. Maybe you should take him to the range and see how that goes.

jpk1md · Jan 9, 2013

teratos said:
Just because you can't keep everything out of his hands doesn't mean you shouldn't restrict his access to firearms. He would also be at risk for negligent discharges. Maybe you should take him to the range and see how that goes.

The problem is that if he's at risk for ND he's also at risk for literally a limitless number of equally dangerous things

He could lose his grip on his bag and it could fly into the face of a passing motorcycle

He could fail to look before crossing the street and cause accidents

He could lite a match around spilled gasoline

He could do any number of things that could do equal damage but you've all bought into the false argument that somehow firearms are different from other inanimate objects.....the truth is that they are not

teratos · Jan 9, 2013

jpk1md said:
The problem is that if he's at risk for ND he's also at risk for literally a limitless number of equally dangerous things

He could lose his grip on his bag and it could fly into the face of a passing motorcycle

He could fail to look before crossing the street and cause accidents

He could lite a match around spilled gasoline

He could do any number of things that could do equal damage but you've all bought into the false argument that somehow firearms are different from other inanimate objects.....the truth is that they are not

My spoon does not fire a 55 grain projectile at 2800 FPS.

jpk1md · Jan 9, 2013

teratos said:
My spoon does not fire a 55 grain projectile at 2800 FPS.

No but my 5 gallon can of gas and a lighter can make for one hell of a bad day for a pile of people and their private property

Why aren't you calling for a ban on 5 gallon cans?

No one should have access to more than a pint if they are mentally ill right?

Or how about those 20 lb propane tanks?

Don't even get me started about motor vehicles, ATV's and golf carts

Fishguy · Jan 9, 2013

teratos said:
SSRIs are one of the most prescribed classes of medications in the world. I write prescriptions for these all the time. I have yet to see a single suicidal thought. I have seen people get irritable, but that has been the worst of the behavioral changes I have seen.

This thing that annoys me most about this topic is that the same people that laugh at libs wanting to blame guns for mass shootings go and blame medications for mass shootings. None of my guns have every shot anyone, neither have any of the pills I have prescribed.

Assuming you were not actually taught to see people's thoughts in med school, is it possible that your patients may not actually tell you if they were having nasty thoughts? Might they fear the repercussions if they did?

Flametamer · Apr 3, 2014

I love this thread; thanks to all who contributed to it! The topic surfaces once again in response to yesterday's tragedy at Ft. Hood:
http://www.infowars.com/army-admits-fort-hood-shooter-was-on-psychiatric-drugs/

ryan_j · Apr 3, 2014

He was also on Ambien.

WeaponsCollector · Apr 3, 2014

Many different prescription drugs come with this warning for side effects "may cause homicidal or suicidal thoughts or actions" including drugs for depression, ADD, sleep problems, and even arthritis pain. I think it's no coincidence that so many mass shooters are on these drugs. Otherwise why have such a warning if it wasn't true?

teratos · Apr 3, 2014

WeaponsCollector said:
Many different prescription drugs come with this warning for side effects "may cause homicidal or suicidal thoughts or actions" including drugs for depression, ADD, sleep problems, and even arthritis pain. I think it's no coincidence that many mass shooters are on these drugs.

So.....it's no coincidence that mass shooters are on medications for mental illness. Does that mean that the medications caused it? Isn't it more likely that the mental illness they are being treated for caused it? Just about everyone who is being treated for psychiatric illness is being treated with an SSRI.

Summary:
Almost every person treated for mental illness is on an SSRI.
Almost every mass shooter is mentally ill.
Clearly the SSRI is to blame.

WeaponsCollector · Apr 3, 2014

teratos said:
So.....it's no coincidence that mass shooters are on medications for mental illness. Does that mean that the medications caused it? Isn't it more likely that the mental illness they are being treated for caused it? Just about everyone who is being treated for psychiatric illness is being treated with an SSRI.

Summary:
Almost every person treated for mental illness is on an SSRI.
Almost every mass shooter is mentally ill.
Clearly the SSRI is to blame.

People were mentally ill decades ago before SSRI's and before all this gun control we have now yet it seems like nobody went on shooting sprees back then. The drugs might not cause these mass shootings, but with the side effects they claim to have it surely can't be very helpful in some cases IMO.

campns · Apr 3, 2014

teratos said:
Sure, genius, lets just lock them up. If I were the government you would be one of the first ones I would lock up. You post all these paranoid ramblings on the forum and are clearly in danger of inciting violence. You are out of touch with reality and are exhibiting signs of antisocial personality disorder. In fact, since you wont STFU, lets just give you a lobotomy and solve this issue permanently.. Off you go.

Do I believe that? No. See how easily it can be used against you when certain people have rights and certain people don't? You do realize it would be the government making that determination, don't you?

This is getting good!

teratos · Apr 3, 2014

Courts have actually accepted SSRI's as having a causal relationship with homicide. It may very well be that they are responsible for many homicides. The link to suicidal thinking is well established and has been observed with just about every class of antidepressant since they first came out. I think we do need to be very careful with this topic. The drugs are use safely in millions of Americans and help many people. Everyone knows several people on these medications, no doubt. They are over-prescribed, IMO.

Should the government step in and establish laws that restrict those on these medications from owning firearms? Should they have to have a note from their doctor?

Brooklyn · Apr 3, 2014

No kidding. The link has been long ignored..

No way to know if the meds are an aggravating factor... especially if no one bothers to study the question.

Nothing new here. Its an open secret in may circles that adverse drug reactions can cause psychotic breaks.

My bet nothing will change until the son or daughter of a high ranking Democrat goes ape...

The clock ticks.

TxAggie · Apr 3, 2014

teratos said:
Courts have actually accepted SSRI's as having a causal relationship with homicide. It may very well be that they are responsible for many homicides. The link to suicidal thinking is well established and has been observed with just about every class of antidepressant since they first came out. I think we do need to be very careful with this topic. The drugs are use safely in millions of Americans and help many people. Everyone knows several people on these medications, no doubt. They are over-prescribed, IMO.

Should the government step in and establish laws that restrict those on these medications from owning firearms? Should they have to have a note from their doctor?

There are a couple of reasons why I see using these drugs as a reference:

As you noted, they have been linked with increased tendencies to homicide/suicide. Even Chantix for smoking cessation had these warnings.

"Mental Illness" can be a bit subjective. I know you have guidelines, bat as with anything some docs are more lenient with them than others.

It's even more difficult to determine someone to be "cured" of a mental illness.

By using drug therapy as a benchmark, it can be temporary for most people. Would it be difficult to manage? No more difficult than ZeroCare. Oh, wait.....

In the end, it's just a thought to throw into the mixer, but I do see a definite correlation. But I also agree that the use of these drugs does work for thousands (millions?) of people when prescribed correctly.

jc1240 · Apr 4, 2014

I mean this in a serious way (I must not understand something). How can any drug designed to treat depression that has a potential side affect of causing suicidal tendencies not be considered defective?

Recent Mass Shootings + Medications

The #1 community for Gun Owners of the Northeast

Member Benefits:

Ultimate Member

My hair is amazing

Ultimate Member

My hair is amazing

Ultimate Member

My hair is amazing

Ultimate Member

My hair is amazing

Ultimate Member

Ultimate Member

Active Member

Ultimate Member

EXTREME GUN OWNER

My hair is amazing

EXTREME GUN OWNER

Ultimate Member

My hair is amazing

I stand with John Locke.

Ultimate Member

Ultimate Member

Users who are viewing this thread

Log in

Forum statistics