Recent Mass Shootings + Medications

usaf_joe · Jan 6, 2013

Not sure if anyone has seen this.. I thought it was an interesting connection between the two, yet, only the firearms are what's talked about every time!

http://www.wnd.com/2013/01/the-giant-gaping-hole-in-sandy-hook-reporting/

usaf_joe · Jan 6, 2013

It's not a long article, but if you want you can just scroll down a little to read about these shooters and their medications.

Boom Boom · Jan 6, 2013

It's more than medications. It's a combination of medications and obvious, long-term mental health issues. Mental health issues that multiple (if not many) people were aware of well ahead of time.

EL1227 · Jan 6, 2013

Connecting the dots ?

Towards the end of the article ...

Some critics suggest these official omissions are motivated by a desire to protect the drug companies from ruinous product liability claims. Indeed, pharmaceutical manufacturers are nervous about lawsuits over the “rare adverse effects” of their mood-altering medications. To avoid costly settlements and public relations catastrophes – such as when GlaxoSmithKline was ordered to pay $6.4 million to the family of 60-year-old Donald Schnell who murdered his wife, daughter and granddaughter in a fit of rage shortly after starting on Paxil – drug companies’ legal teams have quietly and skillfully settled hundreds of cases out-of-court, shelling out hundreds of millions of dollars to plaintiffs. Pharmaceutical giant Eli Lilly fought scores of legal claims against Prozac in this way, settling for cash before the complaint could go to court while stipulating that the settlement remain secret – and then claiming it had never lost a Prozac lawsuit.

Coupled with ObamaCare's ties to big pharma ...

Obamacare architect heads to Big Pharma

ObamaCare's Secret History
How a Pfizer CEO and Big Pharma colluded with the White House at the public's expense.

New Evidence: Obama Gave Big Pharma Special Guarantees In Return for Obamacare Support

We {Big Pharma} got Obamacare passed for you ... you owe us. As Rev. Wright might ask, have their chickens come home to roost ?

GoGoGadget · Jan 6, 2013

http://ssristories.com/index.php?p=school

teratos · Jan 6, 2013

Why does nobody bring up that people who are on psychiatric medications have.......

.........wait for it............

.......wait for it.........

Psychiatric problems!!!!

Why blame the med before you take into account the reason they are on the med? This is like saying guns cause crime.

zoostation · Jan 6, 2013

+1 to Teratos' statements. Like we've discussed in other threads, I compare blaming psych meds for bad behavior to be like blaming heart medications for heart attacks, just because a lot of heart attack victims are already taking them. SSRI's are not these fearfully powerful drugs they're made out to be either. They are very mild and that's one reason it takes several weeks to several months before the patient even begins to notice a small difference because of them.

To my mind this was another wild goose chase started by ambulance chasing malpractice lawyers that has taken hold in the tinfoil hat netherworld region of the web.

GoGoGadget · Jan 7, 2013

I agree with zoostation and teratos regarding the fact that blaming the drugs is as bad as blaming the gun. But, from what it seems, there are real risks (just need to read the warning labels) with these SSRI-class drugs especially when administered to adolescents and young adults who already have psych issues. Here's the partial text of the warning labels assigned to this class or drug:

"Talk to your doctor about taking [insert SSRI drug name here], as [SSRI drug name] may increase suicidal thoughts or changes in behavior in some children, teenagers, and young adults..."

I wouldn't put it past Big Pharma and the FDA for downplaying the un-intended side effects.. But, hey, I'm not a doctor or anything close to it - so maybe I've just got too much tinfoil on...

This will be my last post on this topic in general because I don't want to get banned.

teratos · Jan 7, 2013

GoGoGadget said:
I agree with zoostation and teratos regarding the fact that blaming the drugs is as bad as blaming the gun. But, from what it seems, there are real risks (just need to read the warning labels) with these SSRI-class drugs especially when administered to adolescents and young adults who already have psych issues. Here's the partial text of the warning labels assigned to this class or drug:

"Talk to your doctor about taking [insert SSRI drug name here], as [SSRI drug name] may increase suicidal thoughts or changes in behavior in some children, teenagers, and young adults..."

I wouldn't put it past Big Pharma and the FDA for downplaying the un-intended side effects.. But, hey, I'm not a doctor or anything close to it - so maybe I've just got too much tinfoil on...

This will be my last post on this topic in general because I don't want to get banned.

SSRIs are one of the most prescribed classes of medications in the world. I write prescriptions for these all the time. I have yet to see a single suicidal thought. I have seen people get irritable, but that has been the worst of the behavioral changes I have seen.

This thing that annoys me most about this topic is that the same people that laugh at libs wanting to blame guns for mass shootings go and blame medications for mass shootings. None of my guns have every shot anyone, neither have any of the pills I have prescribed.

GoGoGadget · Jan 7, 2013

Teratos - thank you for this. I'm smart enough to humble myself when conversing with someone who is expert on a topic which I am not.

:thumbsup:

Much respect.

teratos · Jan 7, 2013

GoGoGadget said:
Teratos - thank you for this. I'm smart enough to humble myself when conversing with someone who is expert on a topic which I am not.

Much respect.

I appreciate your vote of confidence. I'm just a regular guy. This is my job. No need to be all humble.

Half-cocked · Jan 7, 2013

What about the chimp that was given Xanax, before it ate that woman's face off?

Alcohol and other drugs cause negative changes in people's behaviors - we shouldn't blind ourselves to the idea that even prescribed drugs - which are SUPPOSED to affect brain function - might be responsible for triggering outbursts of antisocial or even murderous behavior in some people.

Sorry, I just don't buy the whole idea that all these people who commit violent acts while on these drugs, "would have done it anyway".

To me, this denial by the medical and pharmaceutical communities is reminiscent of the denial by the cigarette industry, that cigarettes cause cancer. Remember, they had plenty of people in the medical establishment who sold their souls to distort and manipulate data, to help Big Tobacco "prove" that cigarettes weren't dangerous.

Now, we're faced with an even BIGGER industry, the pharmaceutical industry, with HUGE, DEEP, EMBEDDED social and financial ties to the medical community. The conflict of interest concerns here are STAGGERING, unlike with the tobacco industry.

teratos · Jan 7, 2013

Half-cocked said:
What about the chimp that was given Xanax, before it ate that woman's face off?

Alcohol and other drugs cause negative changes in people's behaviors - we shouldn't blind ourselves to the idea that even prescribed drugs - which are SUPPOSED to affect brain function - might be responsible for triggering outbursts of antisocial or even murderous behavior in some people.

Sorry, I just don't buy the whole idea that all these people who commit violent acts while on these drugs, "would have done it anyway".

To me, this denial by the medical and pharmaceutical communities is reminiscent of the denial by the cigarette industry, that cigarettes cause cancer. Remember, they had plenty of people in the medical establishment who sold their souls to distort and manipulate data, to help Big Tobacco "prove" that cigarettes weren't dangerous.

Now, we're faced with an even BIGGER industry, the pharmaceutical industry, with HUGE, DEEP, EMBEDDED social and financial ties to the medical community. The conflict of interest concerns here are STAGGERING, unlike with the tobacco industry.

You are putting the cart before the horse. A chimp was given Xanax. Xanax is for agitation. So we have an indication that there is an agitated chimpanzee already. Any surprise that an agitated chimp attacked someone? Could it be that the Xanax didn't work?

I suppose it's possible that people do have a response to a medication that causes them to go on a murderous rampage. I don't think this happens nearly as much as you think it does. PCP can do it. Of course, SSRI's aren't dissociative anesthetics, either. I have considerable experience with psychiatric medications, and have since 1992 or so when I started working on an inpatient psych unit when I was in college. I can only share my experience.

jpk1md · Jan 7, 2013

Here's a novel idea.....learn some ****ing coping skills and deal with reality

This would end some absurd percentage of all mental cases that are whacked out on drugs.

Or we could just lock folks up that are incapable of dealing with reality.

I frankly don't really give a ****

Your rights end where me and mine begin and if you can't respect that line in the sand you shouldn't be free to test that point.

Lock the bitches up

Sorry Doc.....I respect the hell out of your opinion but if your patients can't behave then they need to be locked up until they have demonstrated they can

Bob A · Jan 8, 2013

Once you start locking people up because you don't like the way they think, it opens a door that might just get locked behind you. "Reality" is a matter of opinion, and people with opinions that annoy too many folks can find themselves in an awkward position.

Most people with "mental" problems are no danger to others. Giving them medications (let's not call them "drugs", because we tend to get confused about that sort of thing) to help them deal with their lives is a mercy. It wasn't too long ago that the medical profession was shoving knives up behind peoples' eyeballs and making sausage meat out of their frontal lobes, to make them "easier to deal with".

There are some people on this board who might not be easy to deal with, and they have strong convictions. I'm in no position to sit in judgement about them, and they might want to consider returning the favor.

My wife's old uncle told her that he thought all children should be locked in a closet until they were 21. Interesting child-rearing theory; happily, he remained unmarried and childless.

Bigrascal · Jan 8, 2013

TERATOS,
with all the knee jerk opinions as well as the MD Task Force, Do you for-see in the near future the dilemma of either writing a script and having to report it to a board that could possibly take that persons firearms away or not prescribing the meds and hindering that persons recovery?

jpk1md · Jan 8, 2013

Bigrascal said:
TERATOS,
with all the knee jerk opinions as well as the MD Task Force, Do you for-see in the near future the dilemma of either writing a script and having to report it to a board that could possibly take that persons firearms away or not prescribing the meds and hindering that persons recovery?

Obamacare has already answered that question

All medical records will be kept in a central fed db.

Do you think MSP or NICS wont have access to it in short order?

jpk1md · Jan 8, 2013

Bob A said:
Once you start locking people up because you don't like the way they think, it opens a door that might just get locked behind you.

Clearly its not what people "Think" its what they "Do"

If you display to everyone around you that you are incapable of dealing with reality and begin putting others around you in real danger then you do not belong in public circulation.

Bob A said:
"Reality" is a matter of opinion, and people with opinions that annoy too many folks can find themselves in an awkward position.
.

Reality is NOT a matter of opinion.

A tree does in fact make a sound when it falls in the woods whether or not you are there to hear it.

How you interact with the reality around you that includes other individuals is of great importance and concern to all of the rest of us and its the reason why a great many people are prepared to defend themselves

teratos · Jan 8, 2013

jpk1md said:
Here's a novel idea.....learn some ****ing coping skills and deal with reality

This would end some absurd percentage of all mental cases that are whacked out on drugs.

Or we could just lock folks up that are incapable of dealing with reality.

I frankly don't really give a ****

Your rights end where me and mine begin and if you can't respect that line in the sand you shouldn't be free to test that point.

Lock the bitches up

Sorry Doc.....I respect the hell out of your opinion but if your patients can't behave then they need to be locked up until they have demonstrated they can

Sure, genius, lets just lock them up. If I were the government you would be one of the first ones I would lock up. You post all these paranoid ramblings on the forum and are clearly in danger of inciting violence. You are out of touch with reality and are exhibiting signs of antisocial personality disorder. In fact, since you wont STFU, lets just give you a lobotomy and solve this issue permanently.. Off you go.

Do I believe that? No. See how easily it can be used against you when certain people have rights and certain people don't? You do realize it would be the government making that determination, don't you?

teratos · Jan 8, 2013

Bigrascal said:
TERATOS,
with all the knee jerk opinions as well as the MD Task Force, Do you for-see in the near future the dilemma of either writing a script and having to report it to a board that could possibly take that persons firearms away or not prescribing the meds and hindering that persons recovery?

I do not see having to report prescriptions that are written. I think there are already people out there who would do much better with some treatment who do not seek it because they are afraid of the consequences.

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