Referendum? What referendum?! or Moco EMS fee is back

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  • mayor_quimby

    4+4= Jello
    Nov 19, 2008
    4,602
    its tough all around I agree but 4 years with no raises and starting salary of a FF is 40,000 maybe 42 now, either way how should that make the morale go up? it doesnt, but if you think that they wont cut staffing your sadly mistaken, and one of the council members cut truck 12 out of her own district.... so what does that say about the council? they dont even care about the people in their own districts...

    I agree with what you say and it does sadden me that you risk your life every day and the pay does not reflect it plus not having a raise in even one year with inflation is bad enough. My issue is Legget is using the firefighters as a means to his own end. The fire fighters wont see a penny of this money its all a smoke screen to pay for other items. Like I said before its happened in the past at a county and state level. Now you guys are stuck in a rock in a hard place, your funding comes from him so if you stand against him he is going to win out in the end.
     

    Drew1340

    Active Member
    Nov 30, 2010
    419
    AA county
    I more or less agree that no we most likely will not see this money, but I can only hope it comes back to us one day, in my opinion it should directly go to The fire department.... Will that happen no...
     

    tsmith1499

    Poor C&R Collector
    Jan 10, 2012
    4,253
    Southern Mount Airy, Md.
    Sorry Drew but your arguments don't fly. I have lived in MoCo all my life. I know for a fact that ALL insurance companies WILL NOT pay for this. Also why should I pay another fee when I already pay for EMS services in my taxes???? The ONLY good thing about this NEW version of the Ambulance Fee referendum is that they aren't trying to lie to everyone like they did the last time. At least this time if you can't afford it and your insurance co. won't pay for it you WON"T be responsible like in the last version of this referendum. I am not against fair and proper taxes, but if this money is going into the general fund WHY does good old Ike keep saying that if this bill doesn't go through they will have to cut things from the EMS services?? He's gonna do it anyway. Just like the last time when they let all the chief's secretaries go after he lost the last vote on this. SCARE TACTICS, it's all he knows since he SUCKS as a county exec.
     

    tsmith1499

    Poor C&R Collector
    Jan 10, 2012
    4,253
    Southern Mount Airy, Md.
    further more do you think you would be able to feed a family of four on 40,000 a year? .....

    No offense Drew but I WILL take exception with this statement. Nobody told anyone to have a family of 4. If they can't make it either they need a 2 income household like many HERE in MoCo have or they need a second job!!

    I respect the fact that you have chosen the noble career as a firefighter. I personally believe Firefighters and Teachers are ALL underpaid. Many of my friends are Volunteer AND Career firefighters. But please don't try and tell me what's best for ME in the county where I LIVE when you don't live here or pay OUR taxes.

    Like many people that work in MoCo they don't mind coming here for the money because it's usually better than where they live or else why would they be here? I am sorry if I sound a little sensative about this but I was born and raised here and still live here and have seen way too many people come into MoCo from other ares and then tell us what WE should do or need.
     

    Hdgmedic

    Banned
    BANNED!!!
    Aug 14, 2011
    449
    Tough crowd in here. Whew! If MoCo goes the way of Baltimore city, then I guess those residents are really going to know what its like to take care of themselves. That is frequently preached on these forums. So, there better be some self-education real quick on medical emergencies, self-rescue, and fire extinguishment. I know I wouldn't want to be the guy doing CPR on my buddy for 27 minutes, waiting on a defibrillator. And, yes, that did actually happen in Baltimore City.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I777 using Tapatalk 2
     

    Drew1340

    Active Member
    Nov 30, 2010
    419
    AA county
    Hdgmedic, I hear you, and people think of this as scare tactics, as I have said council members have cut staffing in their own districts, so when you need 911 dont worry they will get there when they can after all the staffing and budget cuts, the loss of ambulance fees last go around that the volunteer corporations fought so hard against also got their budgets cut from the county, let me ask you why does the volunteer side have a paid recruiter making over 100,000 a year? so I wouldnt just say money is wasted here or there but it is wasted every where, it is a tough crowd here, and its funny you assume that I just work in moco, how do you know I was not born there maybe I was raised there, and your right no one tells anyone to have a family of four.... so based on that lets stop having anyone that chooses to be a productive member of society lets only let those that will take government money and not work have kids and those that make over a hundred a year to have kids, so that way the middle doesnt get anything but a job, and the rich can pay for the poor.... also you think most of that fire department wouldnt live in moco if we could afford it? I guarantee half if not more would love a short commute to work, but with what they pay us we cant live there.... and honestly if you think the county wastes so much of your money and screws you over, why do you stay there? why dont you move to a county that will provide you fee free ems? howard county is the only county left in md that doesnt bill for transport services... go there... I dont care where you want to live honestly but it seems like you want to complain about this but not change it... its like saying dont cut fire rescue but dont give them raises and it doesnt directly affect you until you call 911 and then that 20 minute time between dispatch and arrival is when you complain that there arent enough ems or fire personnel.... my point is it is a very very fine line... so be careful how much of this you think is just scare tactics, and how much actually may come true.... look at baltimore city... rolling closures of fire houses... and if people didnt abuse the 911 system as their personal taxi cabs, most of the budget issues and over use of the service would not be an issue.... just be careful because this is all very real, and I think it is great that there are volunteers still out there it takes alot to do this for free but think those volunteers have jobs too so if they cut career staffing volunteers arent able to get out 24 7 add that to response time or unit failures.... now whos coming to help...
    its not a job its not a career its a way of life, I do what I do because I love it, I signed on knowing I wont be rich, but I have an extended family that no one else could understand unless you live in a fire house every third day or for four days at a time or whatever your shift is, none of us do it for glory for money or for kicks, its just what we do... and its insulting when people just say that the council threatens our jobs and its just threats when some of us actually have seen the closures some have seen lay offs in other departments... so think when say its scare tactics, think how would you feel when in public forum your told that your job is threatened as a scare tactic when you know it is always possible at these times that they can walk through the door say budget cuts and your out on your ass.... I dont know what some of you do for a living and I dont care to, I opened up and stated what I do for a living in public forum, but think before you just say scare tactics.... its always possible that you may be waiting 27 minutes for someone to show up and help, just like hdgmedic said....
     

    captchaos1

    Member
    Feb 7, 2011
    17
    Lots of bad politics.

    Here is a link to the bill.
    http://http://www.montgomerycountymd.gov/content/council/pdf/bill/2012/Packets/20120508_67.pdf

    See page 3 of the bill to clarify some of the misconceptions.

    I am a career with fire/rescue and I do also pay taxes. I know first hand that there is waste and things we can do better. I also know that in fire/rescue we have gotten much better and leaner in the past few years. Please check the overall county budget to see were the money is going.
    With that said I have mixed feelings about this and know it has been done badly. But from a personal responsibility view, should not the person using the service be at least somewhat accountable for the expense? You would probably be surprised with the abuse within the system from the "frequent fliers" who view it as a "free" ride.
     

    swinokur

    In a State of Bliss
    Patriot Picket
    Apr 15, 2009
    55,394
    Westminster USA
    Is Ike gonna threaten to withhold police protection unless you pay a fee for police response and service?

    Their thirst for our money is unending.
     

    swinokur

    In a State of Bliss
    Patriot Picket
    Apr 15, 2009
    55,394
    Westminster USA
    Ike will start charging for all police calls if he can. Especially since SCOTUS ruled the police have no duty to protect you. He can collect your money and your family pays for the body bag and mortuary services too.

    What a tool.
     

    tsmith1499

    Poor C&R Collector
    Jan 10, 2012
    4,253
    Southern Mount Airy, Md.
    I would like to apologize for the way I came off. Your right Drew and I agree I should not assume that you may not have any connection to moco other than your job. I think for those of us that live here the issue isn't the fee itself but the fact that if the county would spend our money better, we wouldn't need an ambulance fee. My issue also is, if it's going to be an ambulance fee, the money should go back tio the EMS dept. Not Leggett s personal pet projects. Again, sorry if I came off rudely. I guess were just tired of being taxed to death.
     

    Hdgmedic

    Banned
    BANNED!!!
    Aug 14, 2011
    449
    I have an idea! Since folks are so quick to say stop depending on the government to solve your problems, Don't call 911. :lol2: I say if folks don't want to pay for the service, don't use it. Protect and care for yourself! that way there is no dependence on the that socialist, government-run, entitlement program known as free emergency services. There! I solved it! :lol2:

    In case folks aren't aware, the above statement was my way of poking fun at all people who hate entitlement programs until its their turn to use one (like when they hit age 65-67 and are all about some medicare and social security). Some would say fire, police, and EMS are the government's responsibility to provide for the safety and security of its citizens. The more people who use it, the more it costs. Until neighbors start taking care of each other (like they used to) instead of living in their own little worlds, I imagine its just going to get worse.

    Can't wait for the baby-boomer-aging explosion to hit its peak in 2020. EMS is gonna be real busy. Funny thing about those baby boomers (and older), they use 911 (EMS) more than any other age group. I don't think they're the ones sucking off the government's teat, though. So who is really responsible for using 911(EMS) the most? Not who everyone seems to think. That's for sure.....
     

    Drew1340

    Active Member
    Nov 30, 2010
    419
    AA county
    Two things, one there was mention earlier of the fire tax, and I agree everyone is tired of being taxed to death... but heres the funny shit that fire tax rolls into the general fund, howard countys fire tax rolls back to the fire department and has more than taken care of the departments needs, yet mocos fire tax rolls right into the general fund as with most things.... so it too is a screw, my whole point is yes the government pisses the money away but hey maybe if we can get more money to the county and some changes made things will eventually work back out.... my understanding is this is ikes last term, but remember we know what Ike is about, who knows what the next exect will be about....
    that being said, no one will change anyones minds in politics, I would be more than willing to bet we all agree on most political topics, just not this one... and even at the route of it more or less i agree, But I also dont use the 911 service as my ride to a hospital, I have a car, I also know 911 is for emergencies and not just a taxi or a service to assist me on the side of the road when your car breaks down, there are services for that like taxis and triple A, the problem is most people are decent some abuse the bejesus out of 911 and thats why things like a transport fee even come about....
     

    Bob A

    όυ φροντισ
    MDS Supporter
    Patriot Picket
    Nov 11, 2009
    30,687
    Poke fun at 65 year olds when you get there, pal.

    I've worked in hospitals since I was 20 years old, been putting away 10-15% of my salary for decades, and with all that, I don't come close to having the kind of retirement that local government employees get - and they don't pay a cent for it, either.

    Go on and whine about Social Security; without it I'll be living on Alpo. And don't bother coming to my house (assuming I still have it once the taxes get raised enough to pay your pension) with an ambulance. I've used county services three times in the last forty years, thanks. I'd just as soon pay for them when I need them, and keep my tax money in the bank, where it's worth less every year.

    BTW, I voted against the ambulance fee, and will do so again. Enough people have their hands in my pocket already.
     

    Hdgmedic

    Banned
    BANNED!!!
    Aug 14, 2011
    449
    Poke fun at 65 year olds when you get there, pal.

    I've worked in hospitals since I was 20 years old, been putting away 10-15% of my salary for decades, and with all that, I don't come close to having the kind of retirement that local government employees get - and they don't pay a cent for it, either.

    Go on and whine about Social Security; without it I'll be living on Alpo. And don't bother coming to my house (assuming I still have it once the taxes get raised enough to pay your pension) with an ambulance. I've used county services three times in the last forty years, thanks. I'd just as soon pay for them when I need them, and keep my tax money in the bank, where it's worth less every year.

    BTW, I voted against the ambulance fee, and will do so again. Enough people have their hands in my pocket already.

    Not poking fun at 65 year olds at all. Just the folks who complain about medicare and social security until they need it. Also, most government employees pay into their pension, except those folks in Wisconsin. The amount they pay, is usually more than folks pay into social security, also. Why do you think they fight so hard for it? Me? I'm a realist. I know there can be no services without a way to pay for them. So, I can bitch and moan about how "they" stick it to me and keep my services. Or I can keep my money and not have the services. Complaining about it is as effective as the motorcycle riders who complained about helmet laws.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I777 using Tapatalk 2
     

    captchaos1

    Member
    Feb 7, 2011
    17
    Bob A, seems like you might have had a bad experience with the EMS system. Sorry for that if that is the case.
    For the record we all contribute towards our pensions. This is in addition to also paying into social security. Which once we reach SS age our pension gets cut in half, whether or not SS makes up the difference.
    I would like to invite you, or any member here, to stop bye your local county fire station and discuss this in person with the officer in charge. You all might be surprised with the honesty, and how similar our opinions are on these issues.
    I will say again that this has been a lot of bad politics. But there is a reason why the majority of the other Counties in Maryland, the region and the Country do this.
     

    Bob A

    όυ φροντισ
    MDS Supporter
    Patriot Picket
    Nov 11, 2009
    30,687
    No need to apologise. I'm OK with EMS, though my Dad, in NY, slipped & fell in a store when he was in his 90s; they called an ambulance, though he said he didn't need one, and he didn't use it, but they sent him a bill anyway.

    I was under the impression that there was no actual employee contribution to pension etc, though of course it would be factored into compensation somehow.
     

    captchaos1

    Member
    Feb 7, 2011
    17
    Your dad's experience is a perfect example of how not to bill for ems service. If you read the bill in the link I posted above, it is clear that no county tax payer will receive a bill and that any copay's are to be considered payed already by your taxes.
    My fear is that either from mismanagement or bad politics, MOCO will mess this up and good people such as your dad situation will receive a bill. But my understanding is this is going to managed by same company that Fairfax Va is using and have had good results with it.

    Yes I would consider my pension part of my compensation. I'm very grateful for it, but it is does cost somewhere around 10% for Fire/Rescue people. I'm not sure the exact amount. It is well more than I contribute to Social Security. It does provide peace of mind for me and my family, since I'm sure I will not be much good as a fireman when I'm 60.
    I would encourage all county resident's to educate themselves about how the money is being spent.
    http://www.montgomerycountymd.gov/content/omb/FY13/psprec/pdf/psp-highlights.pdf
    I will point out that all public safety(police,fire and sheriff) combined is 12.3% of the total county budget.
     

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