Anti argument against reciprocity:Fake Permits

Mark75H · Dec 10, 2017

swinokur said:
MD is one of them a voluntary commitment of more than 30 days is supposed to be reported to NICS.

FIFY

swinokur · Dec 10, 2017

Very true. MD ranks among the worst states in reporting mental health issues to NICS

swinokur · Dec 10, 2017

Here are the files contained in the NCIC check. Note that NICS rejections are a separate file. So if states report mental health adjudications, a LEO running an NCIC check would see if you are prohibited.

But this of course assumes states report this info to NICS.

https://www.fbi.gov/services/cjis/ncic

press1280 · Dec 10, 2017

swinokur said:
Here are the files contained in the NCIC check. Note that NICS rejections are a separate file. So if states report mental health adjudications, a LEO running an NCIC check would see if you are prohibited.

But this of course assumes states report this info to NICS.

https://www.fbi.gov/services/cjis/ncic

So that pretty much clinches it. LE has access to NICS along with quite a bit more (warrants,stolen vehicles, boats,exc.).
So in essence the antis want to throw the millions of CCW holders into a category with people who aren't prohibited according to NICS but may not qualify for a CCW permit. My guess is this is a very, very, narrow class of people.
I think more of the resistance to this is because may-issue states want to pick and choose who carries. The GOP needs to highlight this in future debates.

MDFF2008 · Dec 11, 2017

It's almost 2018, do we really not have the ability to do permit verifications via an officer's cell phone or laptop?

swinokur · Dec 11, 2017

They do but a state must have NLETS CCW database access to access other states databases. If you look at the map, many don't.
.

Jim12 · Dec 11, 2017

swinokur said:
Very true. MD ranks among the worst states in reporting mental health issues to NICS

Why, I wonder?

Perhaps:
MD protects and doesn't want to disclose politicians, judges, and other power elites with mental health issues, in the event the data is leaked?

Or, maybe:
MD politicians, judges, and other power elites with a history of mental health issues "know" that they aren't part of the "gun violence problem" and don't want to be prohibited despite their own history? Translated: Even though they have mental health issues, they don't want to be "swept up" in a dragnet with the "little people" who are prohibited because of mental health issues.

Some other reason?

Maybe someone will ask them why, in public, during this year's MD Gen ASS'y hearings on the latest proposed infringements that will do nothing to fight crime.

[Edit: I'll bet Putin and Xi know, or could find out in ten minutes, if they wanted to.]

press1280 · Dec 11, 2017

Jim12 said:
Why, I wonder?

Perhaps:
MD protects and doesn't want to disclose politicians, judges, and other power elites with mental health issues, in the event the data is leaked?

Or, maybe:
MD politicians, judges, and other power elites with a history of mental health issues "know" that they aren't part of the "gun violence problem" and don't want to be prohibited despite their own history? Translated: Even though they have mental health issues, they don't want to be "swept up" in a dragnet with the "little people" who are prohibited because of mental health issues.

Some other reason?

Maybe someone will ask them why, in public, during this year's MD Gen ASS'y hearings on the latest proposed infringements that will do nothing to fight crime.

[Edit: I'll bet Putin and Xi know, or could find out in ten minutes, if they wanted to.]

Votes?

BananaRunt · Dec 11, 2017

press1280 said:
So the antis are making a big deal about "fake permits" being used by criminals and prohibited people in the absence of a 24/7 database.

My questions are:

1) What states currently have a 24/7 database accessible for LEO of other states
2) Can LEO access NICS?
3) If #2 is a no and LEO cannot access a database from another state, and we needed a Senate vote or two, would you be OK with LEOs being able to use NICS as a secondary verification source? My thought is this can be done quickly and will eliminate 99% of any fake or prohibited people. It would also help prevent states like NJ from holding people in jail over the weekend while they wait for the other states' offices to open.

I can assure you every police department in the country can access LEEP, with many database services available within the portal.

172pilot · Dec 13, 2017

Wow.. that argument is crazy.. Someone willing to break the law, but they're going to waste the time to make a fake permit in case they get caught?

Reminds me of the line from the Breakfast Club movie, where the "goodie goodie" character admitted to having a fake drivers license, but he got it so that he could VOTE!

Not_an_outlaw · Dec 13, 2017

press1280 said:
Reason I bring this up is that I was a little disappointed with the House GOP's response to the Dems "sky is falling" charges during the hearings. Maybe they knew they had the votes and weren't going to put in the effort. But I feel they really could have taken the anti arguments apart. Instead it just seemed like the same canned statements on both sides.

Most of the Republicans are from the swamp as well. They already got you vote for reciprocity, why do anything more?

Tungsten · Dec 13, 2017

This is silly. No one uses fake documents to assist them in breaking the law.

Sincerely,
The election commission

Anti argument against reciprocity:Fake Permits

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