Here we go again. Anti hunting/Anti gun horse farmer neighbor tresspassing

fabsroman · Oct 6, 2019

Clark W. Griswold said:
I disagree. If it is legal for you to hunt on your property, your neighbors dislike of your activity is not your concern. I would counter with a notice that you intend to discharge firearms in the course of legal hunting on your property. If their horses can’t handle it, then they should take precautions to protect their property

This is exactly what I would do. I would agree that their horses are valuable property, and that if they are susceptible to stampede from the noise of a gun shot, then they should move them to another farm or to some place else on their farm, because I completely intend to hunt on my property.

End of the day, I call BS on the entire stampede thing. I have waterfowl hunted on horse farms plenty, and the only time the owners have had an issue with the way we were hunting is when we rained shot down on the metal roofed barn.

If these horses are thoroughbreds meant for racing, don't they use a starting pistol at the line, or some other type of noise maker? Hope they don't get frightened as the doors open to the track.

Yep, just some imbeciles that do not like hunting/guns.

boothdoc · Oct 6, 2019

Exactly, the guy started this by sending a threatening letter based on his fear mongering nonsense.

fabsroman · Oct 6, 2019

aray said:
The hatred on social media wastelands like Twitter is well known. People say things with the anonymity of the internet that they would never say to someone face to face. Letters have close to that same interpersonal characteristic. I believe your best chance of finding a mutually agreeable solution is to go see your neighbors and have an in-person conversation. You’re much more likely to work something out now, and avoid unknown problems down the road.

In come cases, I have done the face to face thing, only to come to an agreement and then receive an e-mail or letter that does a 180 from what we agreed to face to face.

HoCo has pretty much gone from farming to horses. Believe it was the same way with northern MoCo and then the developers came around. I used to hunt in Germantown.

fabsroman · Oct 6, 2019

parttimer said:
You could request to have him meet you at the property line to show you which stand he is talking about. Bring a 200’ + tape measure and a calm demeanor . Have him stand on his side of the no trespassing markings and start walking to the stand to show him that you are well within your property and lines and well past the minimum distance he is talking about.
This might deescalate him a bit if he feels like you are actually addressing his letter rather than ignoring him. It will also remind him of exactly where the property lines are Incase he decides to step foot on your property again and tries to clam he thought it was his.
If that doesn’t work well send him a box of sand to pound away on.

In most of Maryland, you cannot shoot within 150 yards of an occupied dwelling. Not sure a horse barn is going to qualify as a dwelling. Not only that, but you can shoot anywhere within your property line as long as you are 150 yards away from an occupied dwelling. You can be a millimeter from the next door neighbor's property and still shoot a deer on your property as long as you are not within 150 yards of an occupied dwelling that you do not have written permission to shoot by.

Article - Natural Resources

§10–410. IN EFFECT

(g) (1) Except as provided in paragraphs (2) and (3) of this subsection, a person, other than the owner or occupant, while hunting for any wild bird or mammal may not shoot or discharge any firearm or other deadly weapon within 150 yards, known as the “safety zone”, of a dwelling house, residence, church, or other building or camp occupied by human beings, or shoot at any wild bird or mammal while it is within this area, without the specific advance permission of the owner or occupant.

(2) A person, while hunting for any wild bird or mammal, may not shoot or discharge any firearm within 300 yards of a public or nonpublic school during school hours or at a time when a school–approved activity is taking place.

(3) (i) For archery hunters in Calvert County, Carroll County, Cecil County, Frederick County, Harford County, Montgomery County, St. Mary’s County, or Washington County, the safety zone described in paragraph (1) of this subsection extends for 50 yards from a dwelling house, residence, church, or any other building or camp occupied by human beings.

(ii) For archery hunters in Anne Arundel County, the safety zone described in paragraph (1) of this subsection extends for 100 yards from a dwelling house, residence, church, or any other building or camp occupied by human beings.

(4) During any open hunting season, a person, other than the owner or occupant, may not hunt or chase willfully any wild bird or mammal within the safety zone without the specific advance permission of the owner or occupant.

(5) In Harford County, an archery hunter shall use a tree stand when hunting any wild bird or mammal within 50 to 100 yards of a dwelling house, residence, church, public or nonpublic school, or other building or camp occupied by human beings.

(6) In Montgomery County or Washington County, an archery hunter shall be in an elevated position that allows the hunter to shoot in a downward trajectory when hunting any wild bird or mammal within 50 to 100 yards of a dwelling house, residence, church, public or nonpublic school, or other building or camp occupied by human beings.

Since the barn is "other building" you could get into trouble if you are within 150 yards of that barn AND there are human occupants in the barn at the time you shoot.

Matlack · Oct 6, 2019

I hope your property is marked as no trespassing along the entire border of their property. If not, do so immediately. If so, you better go file a complaint with the local leo. He will eventually take or destroy your stand. You will want to document his trespass now and include the email showing his disdain for your use of your property.

You want to also consult with an attorney on your liability, I doubt their is any but its better to be safe than sorry, and have the lawyer send a letter indicating you have no liability for their horses based on legal actions you take on your property.

Art3 · Oct 6, 2019

The face to face meeting at the property line would be a great start to establish exactly which stand is of concern. I don't have a statute at my fingertips, but I have heard repeatedly that it is illegal for a projectile to cross property lines. You could point that out to him, and assure him that his horses are completely safe as long as they stay on their own property. More importantly, remind him that the No Trespassing signs apply to him as well, for his own safety. Then, follow up the meeting with that same friendly reminder via email to put him on friendly notice to "stay the F off of Gutpile property." Multiple game cameras (watching each other) would verify his compliance (for his own safety, of course), and maybe even see a few deer

Work for peace, but prepare for a cold war. I can't imagine a hot neighbor war ending well for a gun owner in a red flag state :sad20:

I wonder if you could call DNR to get someone to come out for a "consultation?" I'm sure at some point your neighbor will to report a made up violation. Maybe you could head him off at the pass by doing it first :shrug:

Maybe offer a couple of good faith deer steaks. The deer are probably getting fat off of his hay and pastures after all.

Who knows...maybe a little friendly education might turn this ignorant and frightened neighbor into an ally rather than an enemy. I'm sure a horse farmer could conduct his usual business in a way that disrupts your hunt, without making it look like he's disrupting your hunt, if he wanted to. Or, he could also be helpful by disposing of any grain or hay that is too moldy for his horses (but just fine for deer) right along the property line...or, at the very least, not weedeating or banging nails into his fenceline closest to your stand every morning and evening during hunting season. It's worth a try, right :shrug:

traveller · Oct 6, 2019

Three possible replies:

A.
Dear Mr Horses Ass,

Go fork yourself!

Yours Truly,

Gutpile

B.
Dear Neighbor,

As you noticed during your visit to my property, the stand is within the required setback. For most of the season, I hunt using bow and arrow which when shot from the stand wouldn't even reach your property line. During muzzleloader and shotgun season, I occasionally will use a muzzleloader from this stand. I know where my property line is located and adhere to relevant regulations by only taking animals within my property. I can hit a Dixie Cup from 50 yards away, and I know the difference between a deer and a horse, so rest assured that your animals are safe. By having the stand oriented towards your pasture, I can also make sure that none of your animals are close if I ever take a shot in that direction. I know this is all very unsettling for you, but there is really nothing to worry about.

Greetings,

Gutpile

C.
Dear Neighbor,

Rather than trading emails back and forth, I would like for you to come over some time this weekend that we can look at your concerns together. Often these things are better discussed in a face to face conversation.

Gutpile

I don't know you or your neighbor, but for starters I would probably go with C. The others are still an option if you get pushback.

GutPile · Oct 6, 2019

midnightSGT said:
Dear Mr. Gutpile,

First of all who the F does he think he is. He's not starting a conversation in a polite manner. How did he get your E-mail address. I would
respond, Dear Mr. Horse Trespasser, I received your E mail and picture which depicts you clearly Violating "My No Trespassing signs". I have been on this property for well over 20 years and I comply with all safety and hunting regulations. If you would like to speak to me I would be more than willing to talk.

Its listed in the neighborhood directory. Fun part is you can't see the stand from his/her property. So they didn't just walk up . They had to be on a hike through my property during bow season/hunting hours.

lowoncash · Oct 6, 2019

Sounds to me that his email is carefully worded to warn you of his intent to hold you legally liable and start a paper trail. Whatever you decide should be considered carefully. It might even be a good idea to seek legal counsel before you respond.
Friendly but firm but maintaining your legal rights. If it escalates having a lawyer involved from the start would be to your advantage. Escalation on his part might make it prudent to have your response come from your lawyer.

GutPile · Oct 6, 2019

Too late. Bourbon kicked in. Sent the "you had to tresspass to do that" and you have at best a poor grasp on both the law and property rights email. I plan on moving the location anyway. After muzzle loader opener of course. My reply had a little snark but otherwise I was polite. The farmer/owner is a woman. From the UK. She posted this on her wide open facebook page
Link to: https://www.marketwatch.com/story/what-americas-gun-fanatics-wont-tell-you-2016-06-14
and her commentary:
"Oh, yes - other countries (Venezuela, Uruguay and Japan so far) are warning their citizens not to travel to America because it is so dangerous due to the increasing incidence of random mass shootings."

. So yeah worst case scenario. Time to sell/move I guess?

GutPile · Oct 6, 2019

lowoncash said:
Sounds to me that his email is carefully worded to warn you of his intent to hold you legally liable and start a paper trail. Whatever you decide should be considered carefully. It might even be a good idea to seek legal counsel before you respond.
Friendly but firm but maintaining your legal rights. If it escalates having a lawyer involved from the start would be to your advantage. Escalation on his part might make it prudent to have your response come from your lawyer.

The area is filled with gun fire from waterfowl season through deer season and on Sundays when a lot of people target shoot. There is even a legal decision from the Supreme Court on this in favor of the noise maker. http://www.lawschoolcasebriefs.net/2014/01/foster-v-preston-mill-co-case-brief.html. Im not a lawyer though so Im not sure how this would relate to my situation.

So as long as Im following the letter of the law I think im fine to do as I wish. Which might just be building a new 100 yard rifle range parallel to and as close to the property line as possible.

Boats · Oct 6, 2019

Here "we" go again?

How about here "you" go again. Considering, this doesn't sound like an anti-gun thing but more a business owner trying to protect their business. Horses can be worth a LOT of money. (and no, I am not a horse person. I don't care for them, or their owners much)

Of the two, I actually side with the horse people. (Although they should NOT have trespassed on your property)

Raising or training horses is their business, their livelihood. You WANT to hunt (I doubt you NEED to). And while you were there first, I doubt when they knew that there was an avid hunter in the area when they bought the property.

Notice they didn't go straight to legal action, they are simply asking you not to shoot in the direction of their business. Sounds reasonable and proactive to me.

The thing is, horses ARE skittish, and can freak out due to loud noises. You ARE responsible for the noise your firearm makes as well as where the bullet lands. And while you may be well inside the bounds of the law, there are acres of difference between criminal and civil responsibility.

This is the perfect reason why suppressors should be unregulated, it is just neighborly.

I would try to work things out face to face with the neighbor. They have every right to raise horses, just like you have every right to hunt on your land and land you have permission to hunt on.

Unless you would rather they stay silent, and wait until one of the horses freaks out due to a gunshot and then sue you for damages. And yes, you would most likely be held liable because your actions are: avoidable (by hunting with a bow) and controllable (you fired the shot that caused the horse to freak).

Finally, in this state, firearm owners are pretty much pariahs anyway and the antis out number us by quite a margin. so it is foreseeable that a jury would side with your neighbor as well.

sorry for your troubles.

namrelio · Oct 6, 2019

GutPile said:
Thhttp://www.lawschoolcasebriefs.net/2014/01/foster-v-preston-mill-co-case-brief.html[/url].
QUOTE]

"So if you’re running around waving your AK-47 under the Second Amendment, and you haven’t shown up yet at your local National Guard headquarters, you’re not a “patriot.” You’re a deserter."

Atlasarmory · Oct 6, 2019

Horses ain't bad eat'en. Just saying :innocent0

WildWeasel · Oct 6, 2019

Boats said:
Of the two, I actually side with the horse people. (Although they should NOT have trespassed on your property)

Raising or training horses is their business, their livelihood. You WANT to hunt (I doubt you NEED to). And while you were there first, I doubt when they knew that there was an avid hunter in the area when they bought the property.

Notice they didn't go straight to legal action, they are simply asking you not to shoot in the direction of their business. Sounds reasonable and proactive to me.

The thing is, horses ARE skittish, and can freak out due to loud noises. You ARE responsible for the noise your firearm makes as well as where the bullet lands. And while you may be well inside the bounds of the law, there are acres of difference between criminal and civil responsibility.

This is the perfect reason why suppressors should be unregulated, it is just neighborly.

I would try to work things out face to face with the neighbor. They have every right to raise horses, just like you have every right to hunt on your land and land you have permission to hunt on.

Unless you would rather they stay silent, and wait until one of the horses freaks out due to a gunshot and then sue you for damages. And yes, you would most likely be held liable because your actions are: avoidable (by hunting with a bow) and controllable (you fired the shot that caused the horse to freak).

If everything is legal on the OPs part, and he's not shooting into or even parallel to Mr horseshits land then it shouldn't matter. The OP is within his rights, and HS could avoid it too by having his business somewhere else or training them to not be gun shy or loud noise sensitive. Sure, I'd talk about it with him (bring a witness...), but if he's not in discussion mode, then tell him thanks for the evidence of trespass, and just video your firearm hunts. Maybe try to talk to a game warden too. IME (with MI conservation officers), they're very helpful and knowledgeable on trespass as well as applicable hunting regs for neighbors and property.

Alan3413 · Oct 6, 2019

I call BS on the horses spooked by gunfire thing.

First, she has to prove it was gunfire that caused it. Second, she has to prove it's your gun.

fabsroman · Oct 6, 2019

Boats said:
Here "we" go again?

How about here "you" go again. Considering, this doesn't sound like an anti-gun thing but more a business owner trying to protect their business. Horses can be worth a LOT of money. (and no, I am not a horse person. I don't care for them, or their owners much)

Of the two, I actually side with the horse people. (Although they should NOT have trespassed on your property)

Raising or training horses is their business, their livelihood. You WANT to hunt (I doubt you NEED to). And while you were there first, I doubt when they knew that there was an avid hunter in the area when they bought the property.

Notice they didn't go straight to legal action, they are simply asking you not to shoot in the direction of their business. Sounds reasonable and proactive to me.

The thing is, horses ARE skittish, and can freak out due to loud noises. You ARE responsible for the noise your firearm makes as well as where the bullet lands. And while you may be well inside the bounds of the law, there are acres of difference between criminal and civil responsibility.

This is the perfect reason why suppressors should be unregulated, it is just neighborly.

I would try to work things out face to face with the neighbor. They have every right to raise horses, just like you have every right to hunt on your land and land you have permission to hunt on.

Unless you would rather they stay silent, and wait until one of the horses freaks out due to a gunshot and then sue you for damages. And yes, you would most likely be held liable because your actions are: avoidable (by hunting with a bow) and controllable (you fired the shot that caused the horse to freak).

Finally, in this state, firearm owners are pretty much pariahs anyway and the antis out number us by quite a margin. so it is foreseeable that a jury would side with your neighbor as well.

sorry for your troubles.

That is quite hilarious and quite "liberal" thinking of you.

I doubt the horse people "need" to raise horses to make a living. Kind of like saying Donald Trump needs to sell real estate to eat or Warren Buffet needs to be able to buy and sell stock to eat.

We would really need to look at balance sheets, income statements, skill sets, etc. to determine "need", but going by "need" is a wonderful socialist perspective.

Why should the horse people be allowed to interfere with the OP's hunting on his own property?

Maybe the OP does not have as much money in his retirement account as the horse people or in his savings account, and he needs to supplement that by supplying his own meat for consumption.

Maybe the horse people can go work for somebody else on a W-2 and still make more money than the OP.

Lot's of assumption here and "big government" restriction of property rights.

Maybe the horse people should buy a much larger farm, in an area where hunting is not allowed, and then build a sound proof barn for their skittish horses.

Then, there are noise ordinances already in place. Doubt the shooting of a firearm, within the legal limits already in place, is going to violate those noise ordinances.

Plus, they should ban horse racing. I mean, does the horse really want to live in captivity and be forced to race for somebody else's gain? We are above enslaving animals. Everybody should be a vegan. Solves both problems. OP is no longer allowed to hunt on his property and the horse lovers are no longer allowed to have horses on their property. Everybody should be equally miserable.

Nothing like liberals moving to the country and trying to change what the country is into their form of utopia, only to realize in 30+ years that the area is now a craphole and they need to move on to the next country area to "improve" it to their standards.

fogman · Oct 6, 2019

I used to hunt a friend's property on the edge of Gambril's State Park. They were horsey people but also hunter friendly. Traded many long hours helping them clear out an area for their 2 geriatric horses when they bought the land. The next year the anti hunting horsey people bought the property to the north of my friend's. Clear cut their entire property and cut their own trail thru state land on the south side of my friends property to ride their horses down to the Catoctin Trail. Immediately complained about my hunting. Confronted me one day while I was in my tree stand near the property edge next to the state land. Filed a complaint with the Frederick Police department that someone shot at them while they were out riding thru the Frederick Watershed during hunting season. Made it too much of a hassle that my friend asked me to not hunt on their property.
A few years ago I found a note in my mailbox. "Please do not dump your deer carcasses on other people's property" Not signed by anyone but figured it was my new neighbor since there were 3 dead deer shoved up under the brush on the edge of her property. I waited till she got home and went to talked to her. She denied the note but I never heard anything again after I explained to her that they were not my deer but I figured those of her handyman who had poached the deer during the day and only took the cuts he wanted.
File a complaint with the police department about the trespassing and harassment. Get it on record first before they do. Then go talk to them and try to work something out. Just understand that they will probably escalate the situation if you don't agree to do what they want.

fabsroman · Oct 6, 2019

Alan3413 said:
I call BS on the horses spooked by gunfire thing.

First, she has to prove it was gunfire that caused it. Second, she has to prove it's your gun.

Hell, she has to prove that he owes her a duty to start the entire thing off.

Is there a duty for a landowner NOT to shoot a gun on his/her property because it might scare the neighbor's horses?

I would send a letter to the neighbor and inform the neighbor of when firearms hunting season is, that I plan on shooting during that time, and that they should take appropriate actions to mitigate any damages that they think might happen to their business because of the sound of gunfire.

Those of you that are yapping about this being a liberal state and the OP getting raked over the coals over this, please remember that these things are decided in county courts. One thing to be in court in central Maryland, an entirely different thing to be on the eastern shore or western Maryland. So, the OP needs to take into account where he is located.

Heck, quite a difference between HoCo and Carroll County when it comes to gun ordinances, hunting, farming, etc.

HogCommander · Oct 6, 2019

Me & another hunter both hunted a friends property in MD for a few years. The other hunter had a run-in with a neighbor over parking. Same neighbor confronted me one day...I was friendly, told him I would respect his property...turned into a completely different guy and went out of his way to help me. A little give & take goes a long way sometimes even when you dont legally have to

Here we go again. Anti hunting/Anti gun horse farmer neighbor tresspassing

The #1 community for Gun Owners of the Northeast

Member Benefits:

Ultimate Member

Ultimate Member

Ultimate Member

Ultimate Member

Scribe

Eqinsu Ocha

The one with two L

Ultimate Member

Baned

Ultimate Member

Ultimate Member

Broken Member

Ultimate Member

Ultimate Member

Active Member

Ultimate Member

Ultimate Member

Active Member

Ultimate Member

Active Member

Users who are viewing this thread

Log in

Forum statistics