6.5 Grendel at 965yds

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  • ToolAA

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Jun 17, 2016
    10,499
    God's Country
    Sad that you have to pay for it here.

    When I was an teenager in Arizona, we would just go out into the desert north of Phoenix and shoot great distances for free. And camp. And make large bonfires. And drink beer. :D

    We had the WHOLE desert to ourselves.


    I sure do wish we had open spaces like that to camp and shoot. However $75 ($50 for members) is still pretty good considering where we are located. Also they only have 4-6 frontier Sunday events per year so thats really only maybe 120-160 people who can shoot there all year.
     
    Sad that you have to pay for it here.

    When I was an teenager in Arizona, we would just go out into the desert north of Phoenix and shoot great distances for free. And camp. And make large bonfires. And drink beer. :D

    We had the WHOLE desert to ourselves.

    Yeah, Maryland sucks for shooting sports. However the job market is pretty strong.
    I noticed you live here too.
     

    lazarus

    Ultimate Member
    Jun 23, 2015
    13,673
    Buy 100 cheapo Wolf rounds to send through it before using good ammo. Grendels are infamous for needing a little copper fouling to get the barrel good and accurate.

    Yeah interestingly I’ve had few rifles change accuracy much with more rounds. Maybe a smidge better, but let’s say they were 90% as good from round 2 (1st is almost always nuts from a good cleaning from the factory grease).

    The 18” 6.5 i recall group sizes after about 20-30 rounds shrank from about 1.2MOA to .9MOA for match loads. The 24” I just built started at 6MOA for wolf steel and as I shot I was watching the groups get smaller. One shot in to the dirt, then a 5 shot 6MOA group. Then a 5 shot 5MOA group. Then a 4MOA group. Then 3.

    I shot 5 rounds of Hornady BTHP 123gr and it was about 1.5MOA. I ran out of time after that (also was working a pair of 16” .223 uppers).

    I am kind of interested to see if it continues to improve or not. Even if it doesn’t, 1.5MOA is okay with me. I’d prefer better of course, but I built the upper because I got the barrel stupid cheap and had spares of all the other parts. Maybe a $140 investment. What is interesting is at the moment my 18” rifle, which is my deer rifle is better accuracy with match ammo, but wolf steel it shoots 6-8MOA groups. The 24” had improved to about 3MOA. But not as good (yet anyway) with match ammo.

    PS after the first two groups I let it cool for about 15 minutes before shooting more, so it wasn’t that it needed heat.
     

    Pensfaninmd

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Mar 28, 2010
    1,026
    Harford County
    Great job shooting. I was at PNTC last year for their Long Range class. Learned a lot and got my .223 rifle build out to the 900+ target. Now you got me thinking of a Grendel build.
    Thanks for the informative video...
     

    pbharvey

    Habitual Testifier
    MDS Supporter
    Dec 27, 2012
    30,151
    After this past Sunday, I'm going to have to go with the Grendel. It is a really good combo of range, power and recoil. It is good at everything, but not great or horrible at anything.

    Hitting a center mass size target at half a mile sounds pretty great to me.
    What’s that ammo cost at retail?
     
    Hitting a center mass size target at half a mile sounds pretty great to me.
    What’s that ammo cost at retail?

    If you look, it can be found for $.80 per round. Most is $1.00-$1.50 per round. Hornady Black shoots really well in mine. Hornady American Gunner notsomuch. Wolf is $.30 per round, but only good for ~1.5 MOA @ 100yds.
    If you already have brass, match loads can be made for <$.35 per round. The cartridges in the video cost me $.33 each (existing brass).
     

    erwos

    The Hebrew Hammer
    MDS Supporter
    Mar 25, 2009
    13,866
    Rockville, MD
    Hornady Black is pretty rad. I may be out at AGC on Sunday on the 200yd range producing more brass from it, we'll see.

    As for starting small, I dunno, I went from 100yds straight to 600yds and didn't find it all that challenging. Hell, even 1000yds isn't that bad with the right gear - 90% of a successful extreme long-range shot is the preparation before the shot. :)
     

    ToolAA

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Jun 17, 2016
    10,499
    God's Country
    Great job shooting. I was at PNTC last year for their Long Range class. Learned a lot and got my .223 rifle build out to the 900+ target. Now you got me thinking of a Grendel build.
    Thanks for the informative video...


    Not another thread hijack but do you mind telling me what projectile weight you were using and what muzzle velocity you were getting? Im interested because I was trying to hit targets about 688yds with my .223 and it seems like I’m firing artillery shells. Check out the bullet trace in this video. You can see my shots arching in from a high angle at the top left and splashing in the dirt just to the left of the target.

    I was using a 69gr projectile at 2850 fps MV.

    https://youtu.be/OGLy_zN-K2I
     

    Pensfaninmd

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Mar 28, 2010
    1,026
    Harford County
    Not another thread hijack but do you mind telling me what projectile weight you were using and what muzzle velocity you were getting? Im interested because I was trying to hit targets about 688yds with my .223 and it seems like I’m firing artillery shells. Check out the bullet trace in this video. You can see my shots arching in from a high angle at the top left and splashing in the dirt just to the left of the target.

    I was using a 69gr projectile at 2850 fps MV.

    https://youtu.be/OGLy_zN-K2I


    Not sure of MV as I didn't have a chrono but I was using Sig Sauer 77Grain ammo which I purchased in their pro shop as that is what the instructors recommended. I used a 24in heavy barrel. I was able to reach out to the 1000 plus target but couldn't hit it. I was able to see it hit around it but couldn't get it on target.
     

    OLM-Medic

    Banned
    BANNED!!!
    May 5, 2010
    6,588
    Not another thread hijack but do you mind telling me what projectile weight you were using and what muzzle velocity you were getting? Im interested because I was trying to hit targets about 688yds with my .223 and it seems like I’m firing artillery shells. Check out the bullet trace in this video. You can see my shots arching in from a high angle at the top left and splashing in the dirt just to the left of the target.

    I was using a 69gr projectile at 2850 fps MV.

    https://youtu.be/OGLy_zN-K2I

    That might be somewhat of an illusion with the camera but it definitely has a noticeable arc.

    For me, past 600 yards is where it starts to get tricky with .223. I prefer 75-77gr but 69 isnt too bad.

    It doesn't seem like you're having wild misses dancing around the target. It seems that you're consistently off target hitting the same spot. Work your drop chart from 100y all the way out. Make your elevation adjustments accordingly and then record whatever come up it took to hit the target at that range. You might also be under or overcompensating for wind.

    Another thing, if you do have a true drop chart but it's done in 100y increments, .223 will have a pretty significant difference in the middle of those numbers. Enough to make you miss. I was just suspecting that since its 688 yards you may have a 600 or 700y zero dialed in, which could make you miss.
     

    rbird7282

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Dec 6, 2012
    18,530
    Columbia
    The target is at the tree line.

    Frontier Day at Peacemaker is a hoot and worth every penny of the $75 for 4hrs of range time.



    Totally worth it. Great range with plenty of targets. Ironic that the LRC matches are cheaper than Frontier Days


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     

    lazarus

    Ultimate Member
    Jun 23, 2015
    13,673
    If you look, it can be found for $.80 per round. Most is $1.00-$1.50 per round. Hornady Black shoots really well in mine. Hornady American Gunner notsomuch. Wolf is $.30 per round, but only good for ~1.5 MOA @ 100yds.
    If you already have brass, match loads can be made for <$.35 per round. The cartridges in the video cost me $.33 each (existing brass).

    Depends on the gun. My 18” is .9MOA with Hornady black and American gunner, .8moa with federal fusion. 6-8MOA with wolf.

    The 24” I just built and I am still breaking in seems to be about 1.5MOA with American gunner and 2.5MOA with Wolf. I’ll see where it is in 40 or 50 more rounds and trying fusion and HB in it (also SST).
     

    lazarus

    Ultimate Member
    Jun 23, 2015
    13,673
    Not sure of MV as I didn't have a chrono but I was using Sig Sauer 77Grain ammo which I purchased in their pro shop as that is what the instructors recommended. I used a 24in heavy barrel. I was able to reach out to the 1000 plus target but couldn't hit it. I was able to see it hit around it but couldn't get it on target.

    Depending on what you are juicing it to, it is certainly going subsonic before 1000yds. At 2700fps MV a 77gr SMK hits subsonic at about 820yds. At an MV of 2800fps it’s subsonic at about 890yds.

    I didn’t put it in to a calculator, but you’d probably have to push it to about 3000fps to stay supersonic out to 1000yds. That’s a tall order with even a 24” barrel.

    Basically you are talking 800yds effective maximum range for a 77gr .223. Maybe if you loaded it in a bolt gun with increased COAL and 85gr bullets you might manage 1000yds.

    One of those reasons I like 6.5 grendel. Even out of an 18” with the right bullet/round and conditions you can manage 1000yds before going subsonic. With a longer barrel 1100 and some change is doable.
     
    If you look, it can be found for $.80 per round. Most is $1.00-$1.50 per round. Hornady Black shoots really well in mine. Hornady American Gunner notsomuch. Wolf is $.30 per round, but only good for ~1.5 MOA @ 100yds.
    If you already have brass, match loads can be made for <$.35 per round. The cartridges in the video cost me $.33 each (existing brass).

    Depends on the gun. My 18” is .9MOA with Hornady black and American gunner, .8moa with federal fusion. 6-8MOA with wolf.

    The 24” I just built and I am still breaking in seems to be about 1.5MOA with American gunner and 2.5MOA with Wolf. I’ll see where it is in 40 or 50 more rounds and trying fusion and HB in it (also SST).

    The first 20rds out of mine were >5MOA. It took a good 100rds to get sub MOA. With handloads and Hornady Black, I can do cloverleaf groups at 100yds and remain sub MOA at 200yds. My gun shoots Wolf and American Gunner about the same. I will not be buying more American Gunner.
    Accuracy wise with handloads, 123gr ELD-M were most accurate in mine. However, the 100gr MM gave me an extra 250fps at the muzzle with a 0.2MOA increase. At distance, I felt that would be best.
    This pic is from AGC's 200yd range. (Hornady Black)
     

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