TX dean resigns overe new handgun law

Jim12 · Feb 29, 2016

pilotguy said:
It is convenient for him to say his move is due to the ccw issue but he had applied for the other position before this became law.

I wondered about that. This was his secondary reason for his move. The first he mentioned, then ignored by everyone, was the reduction in funding. Maybe that was even partly his fault, and the gun issue is a canard. Who knows?

Funny how that plays out in the argument, and the media. :sad20:

Jim12 · Feb 29, 2016

Ghostrider1 said:
Utah has had campus carry for years. I've yet to hear of any gunfights in lecture halls out there. Why would Texas be any different?

It's Austin.

Vile Shadow · Feb 29, 2016

K31 said:
He's moving from one CCW state to another, seems like his protest is pretty lame. He should move to some college where's there's no chance of CC, like in the middle of Balmer.

So he wants to go libtard, but not necessarily FULL libtard? Yeah, that makes sense. :rolleyes:

niftyvt · Feb 29, 2016

Redcobra said:
I have mixed emotions about this issue. I taught college classes for nearly 35 years, and we had some spirited discussions on controversial topics. I had one student stand up and say "How dare you insult my President" when I deprecated something that Clinton had done. Another time, after one of the Southern State Educational systems officially rounded Pi to 3.2 and I commented that they were idiots and that there must be no circles in that state, a student got upset. I know of a student who I flunked that may well have shot me if he could have. I challenged students knowledge and beliefs many times. It's part of the Socratic method of teaching.
Anyway, I would definitely have some unease if a pack of students to whom I was lecturing were carrying. It would force me to carry also. And I don't think that this is a good condition for advanced education.

Glad I'm retired.

traveller said:
Thanks for your perspective. Like you, I am not sure whether campus carry is a good idea.

I have two further concerns with this:
- A 21 year old has not had much of an opportunity to establish a track record of maturity and temperament. Very few sources of information to gauge whether this particular student is going to be responsible.
- Many psych diseases manifest themselves in the age range when people are in college. It is difficult enough to deal with a psychotic student as is, dealing with a armed psychotic student is a potential disaster.

I have less concerns with a 26 year old who has held a CCW for 5 years than I have with a 21 year old carrying in the classroom.

From personal experience a student or teacher carrying could have saved some of my friends lives on April 16, 2007. I fully support campus carry and personally will never visit my alma mater again until they allow it.

Boxcab · Feb 29, 2016

So he is quitting in protest of the new law.... but he has another job already lined up in PA? Seems like he was quitting all along and used his announcement to push an agenda.

See ya'.

.

Jim12 · Feb 29, 2016

Boxcab said:
So he is quitting in protest of the new law.... but he has another job already lined up in PA? Seems like he was quitting all along and used his announcement to push an agenda.

See ya'.

.

Exactly what it looks like.

Odiferous Maximus · Feb 29, 2016

My guess is that the guy already had a new job (better pay, etc.) lined up beforehand and simply used this as an excuse to make himself seem more "academic."

chuck · Feb 29, 2016

Redcobra said:
I have mixed emotions about this issue. I taught college classes for nearly 35 years, and we had some spirited discussions on controversial topics. I had one student stand up and say "How dare you insult my President" when I deprecated something that Clinton had done. Another time, after one of the Southern State Educational systems officially rounded Pi to 3.2 and I commented that they were idiots and that there must be no circles in that state, a student got upset. I know of a student who I flunked that may well have shot me if he could have. I challenged students knowledge and beliefs many times. It's part of the Socratic method of teaching.
Anyway, I would definitely have some unease if a pack of students to whom I was lecturing were carrying. It would force me to carry also. And I don't think that this is a good condition for advanced education.

Glad I'm retired.

If at 21 somebody is not mentally capable enough to carry a handgun, then why should they be deemed capable enough to take out a mortgage's worth of college loans when they are 18? The first may make you uneasy but the second pays your bills.

Bringing up the example of the student who would have if he could have is a fallacy. If you failed him in class he could have easily gone home to get his gun and returned if he was that determined. If he learned about the failure outside of class the steps he would have had to take would be exactly the same with or without campus carry.

Redcobra · Feb 29, 2016

5.56blaster said:
I spent 26 years in law enforcement and now I'm a college student. Would it bother you if I was carrying in class?

You are obviously not a 20 something. With you, I'd probably never know.
I'd feel safer with you there carrying especially if all the 21-25yr olds were too.

Redcobra · Feb 29, 2016

Jim12 said:
Don't people engage in passionate debates, stressful situations, and controversial decisions 24/7, in all walks of life, all corners of the country?

And citing your own experiences, I'm sure that if everyone had been armed at the time that the situations might have been handled differently by all, if everyone had known each other was armed.

The problem here is that most of the students would not feel the need to be armed. In fact, I would bet that most students would not even apply for a CCW. It's that oddball who decides to carry that worries me. My classes were at 8AM and the variety of wakefulness, dress, and attitude at that time of the morning among the Sophomores and Juniors was truly mind boggling.

Odiferous Maximus · Feb 29, 2016

Odiferous Maximus said:
My guess is that the guy already had a new job (better pay, etc.) lined up beforehand and simply used this as an excuse to make himself seem more "academic."

Oops...didn't read previous comments :-)

Redcobra · Feb 29, 2016

chuck said:
If at 21 somebody is not mentally capable enough to carry a handgun, then why should they be deemed capable enough to take out a mortgage's worth of college loans when they are 18? The first may make you uneasy but the second pays your bills.

Bringing up the example of the student who would have if he could have is a fallacy. If you failed him in class he could have easily gone home to get his gun and returned if he was that determined. If he learned about the failure outside of class the steps he would have had to take would be exactly the same with or without campus carry.

To your first point, it's usually the parents who are making the financial decisions. And, if the student were really mature, they wouldn't take out those loans.

To your second, the fact that they would have to leave class and take some effort to go arm and come back deescalates the situation. It's the here and now impulse response of the young that worries me. You very rarely see 60 year olds ripping up a town after a basketball game.

wilcam47 · Feb 29, 2016

swinokur said:
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/02/27/u...f-texas-resigns-in-part-over-handgun-law.html

seems he has no issues about the 1A, only the 2A.
.
.

Jim12 · Feb 29, 2016

Redcobra said:
The problem here is that most of the students would not feel the need to be armed. In fact, I would bet that most students would not even apply for a CCW. It's that oddball who decides to carry that worries me. My classes were at 8AM and the variety of wakefulness, dress, and attitude at that time of the morning among the Sophomores and Juniors was truly mind boggling.

I was once an 18 year old sophomore with 8:00 classes, and I dare speculate that nobody even thought about whether anybody might or might not be armed. It never came up. If then, as now, it were drawn to everyone's attention and a big hullaballoo made out of it like they're doing now, I bet people would have been more awake and on their toes at 8:00 a.m.

When one variable changes, they all do. There was a time when teenage kids had shotguns in the back of their cars so they could go hunting straight after school, and nobody gave it a moment's thought. When I was a teen (late '60's), I belonged to a junior rifle club that met on Friday nights at the NRA range below NRA's then-HQ on Rhode Island Ave. in D.C.! We 14-year-olds walked in the dark on R.I. Ave., alone or in groups, with long guns in soft cases over our shoulders, perfectly legally, and nobody gave it a second thought!

Boondock Saint · Feb 29, 2016

Redcobra said:
To your first point, it's usually the parents who are making the financial decisions. And, if the student were really mature, they wouldn't take out those loans.

To your second, the fact that they would have to leave class and take some effort to go arm and come back deescalates the situation. It's the here and now impulse response of the young that worries me. You very rarely see 60 year olds ripping up a town after a basketball game.

I think the same people that rip up towns after basketball games aren't the same type of people that would refrain from carrying if they were so inclined, regardless of legal ability or campus rules. Just like the "impulse" to shoot a prof because his/her position was challenged, the person that's inclined to do that in the first place is already carrying a firearm if they want to do so. That it's illegal to carry a firearm, to say nothing of shooting a person, is of no matter to someone who wants to do it. Laws do nothing to stop those intent on breaking the social contract.

The person that submits to a background check, provides fingerprints, pays fees, etc. is someone that you would ostensibly want carrying in your classroom. They would do so without your knowledge, posing no harm to themselves or anyone else.

Jim12 · Feb 29, 2016

Boondock Saint said:
I think the same people that rip up towns after basketball games aren't the same type of people that would refrain from carrying if they were so inclined, regardless of legal ability or campus rules. Just like the "impulse" to shoot a prof because his/her position was challenged, the person that' inclined to do that in the first place is already carrying a firearm if they want to do so.

The person that submits to a background check, provides fingerprints, pays fees, etc. is someone that you would ostensibly want carrying in your classroom. They would do so without your knowledge, posing no harm to themselves or anyone else.

It's the same old argument from the other side, just in another setting. Criminals will be criminalsm and these laws and regs only affect law abiding citizens.

chuck · Feb 29, 2016

Redcobra said:
To your first point, it's usually the parents who are making the financial decisions. And, if the student were really mature, they wouldn't take out those loans.

To your second, the fact that they would have to leave class and take some effort to go arm and come back deescalates the situation. It's the here and now impulse response of the young that worries me. You very rarely see 60 year olds ripping up a town after a basketball game.

Why would maturity correlate to not taking out loans? I can see maturity correlating to not taking out loans for financially useless degrees but not an outright disqualifier.

Also I would challenge the issue of parents being in control of the financial situation when loans are involved. From my anecdotal evidence, those who benefit most from the loans have complete control over their own finances. Not by choice but by necessity.

gamer_jim · Feb 29, 2016

I read this more as he was leaving anyway and just to be a douche about it mentioned he doesn't like guns.

The school he is going to has this policy:

"Possession of dangerous materials, including firearms, is not permitted."

https://www.design.upenn.edu/architectural-archives/about

traveller · Feb 29, 2016

Ghostrider1 said:
Utah has had campus carry for years. I've yet to hear of any gunfights in lecture halls out there. Why would Texas be any different?

The Utah experience is the best argument for it. But then, Texas is not Utah and has many problems that are less common in UT, not sure the experience can be translated 1:1. The only incident I can remember from UT is an elementary school teacher who shot herself in the butt while going to the bathroom.

MDFF2008 · Feb 29, 2016

I've been thinking about this, and there is one thing that did occur to me.

When I did my Utah CCW, the word of the day was "de-escalate." Well in the heat of a debate, de-escalation can mean defeat.

That said, I agree the vast, vast majority of people who carry will not shoot someone for disagreeing. However, I am willing to bet that these professors know that at least 1 of the Social Justice Warriors they've trained would, and I think some of these professors would, so they instead choose to live in their world where people respect the no gun signs.

TX dean resigns overe new handgun law

The #1 community for Gun Owners of the Northeast

Member Benefits:

Let Freedom Ring

Let Freedom Ring

...

Ultimate Member

MSI EM

Let Freedom Ring

Active Member

Ultimate Member

Senior Shooter

Senior Shooter

Active Member

Senior Shooter

Ultimate Member

Let Freedom Ring

Ultimate Member

Let Freedom Ring

Ultimate Member

Podcaster

The one with two L

Ultimate Member

Users who are viewing this thread

Log in

Forum statistics