LEOs and increased carry

gmhowell · Jul 27, 2012

This is a bit off the path of the other threads on carry, and likely to devolve into the usual LEO hatefest, so I started a new thread.

I was wondering if it is SOP when encountering a person with a firearm to clear the gun? Are there different rules in place if it's a person with a permit or not? Are the rules different depending on the reason for a LEO encountering the person with a gun? I'm not sure of the terms, but I'm thinking that there may be different rules for a minor traffic stop (say, 74 in a 65) vs "someone matching your description mugged someone a block away five minutes ago" vs "did you see the mugger come this way?"

Now, I swear that years ago I saw an episode of COPS or something like that where they were clearing a gun retrieved from the car of a BG. They wound up having to call in another officer to do the clearing because the guy available on the scene didn't know how to do it. (Sorry I don't have better details. I did most of my watching of COPS on Saturday evenings in college, and there was often drinking involved.)

So, assuming more officers will encounter more weapons of more types, is more training for LEOs a good idea?

Similarly, what is the law regarding disclosure of whether or not you have a firearm on your person to a LEO? (Obviously telling them is probably the best for everyone's safety.)

Folks, I implore you, can we please use this as an opportunity for learning? Can we avoid the 4th and 5th amendment arguments that crop up? Can we make a clear distinction between "what is the law/rule/regulation" and "what things ought to be"? No matter how you feel about common heathens having guns or not letting the man stick it to you, this is an important issue about which everyone is going to need education.

Name Taken · Jul 27, 2012

Permit makes no difference.

It is all dependent on the type of interaction and how the person presents and maintain themselfs.

teratos · Jul 27, 2012

I have been pulled over a few times in the past couple of years while carrying, and I have had one encounter with an LEO at a gas station when my attire screamed "I have a gun".

When I first got my permit, I got one of those fancy 5.11 tactical vests. I had my Glock 23 in the inside holster. I was filling up at a gas station. The office walked over, made some small talk "how do you like your car.....", then says:
"are you carrying?
Me: "yes, sir"
Officer: "Do you have a permit for it?"
Me: "I do, would you like to see it?"
Officer: "That won't be necessary, have a good day"

Next couple of times were traffic stops (yeah, I tend to drive a little fast). They all went about the same:

Officer: "License and registration"
I hand my license, registration, and carry permit
Officer: "Why are you handing me your permit?"
Me: "For your safety and mine, you should know that I am legally carrying a firearm, how would you like me to proceed?"
Officer: "Where is the firearm?"
Me: "OWB, at 4 O'Clock"
Officer: "Just don't pull it out and we'll be fine....."

Never had a problem.

clandestine · Jul 27, 2012

teratos said:
I have been pulled over a few times in the past couple of years while carrying, and I have had one encounter with an LEO at a gas station when my attire screamed "I have a gun".

When I first got my permit, I got one of those fancy 5.11 tactical vests. I had my Glock 23 in the inside holster. I was filling up at a gas station. The office walked over, made some small talk "how do you like your car.....", then says:
"are you carrying?
Me: "yes, sir"
Officer: "Do you have a permit for it?"
Me: "I do, would you like to see it?"
Officer: "That won't be necessary, have a good day"

Next couple of times were traffic stops (yeah, I tend to drive a little fast). They all went about the same:

Officer: "License and registration"
I hand my license, registration, and carry permit
Officer: "Why are you handing me your permit?"
Me: "For your safety and mine, you should know that I am legally carrying a firearm, how would you like me to proceed?"
Officer: "Where is the firearm?"
Me: "OWB, at 4 O'Clock"
Officer: "Just don't pull it out and we'll be fine....."

Never had a problem.

Oh, stop with that kind of post. According to the experts all say the MD cops just want to kill people who carry.

Act respectful? Thats violating their rights!

I have had the same experiences BTW, but then again Im a badge licker.

Wayne · Jul 27, 2012

Officer: "Just don't pull it out and we'll be fine....."

Never had a problem.

Being cool and respectful in a traffic stop has always worked for me. I have to say some of the posts on this board have improved my interactions.

teratos · Jul 27, 2012

clandestine said:
Oh, stop with that kind of post. According to the experts all say the MD cops just want to kill people who carry.

Act respectful? Thats violating their rights!

I have had the same experiences BTW, but then again Im a badge licker.

I keep Ice-T's CD "Cop Killa" in the CD player. I turn it on when I get pulled over......

jrumann59 · Jul 27, 2012

teratos said:
I keep Ice-T's CD "Cop Killa" in the CD player. I turn it on when I get pulled over......

I prefer NWA's "Foook the Police", its short, sweet, and to the point.

diesel-man · Jul 27, 2012

jrumann59 said:
I prefer NWA's "Foook the Police", its short, sweet, and to the point.

.

corelokt · Jul 28, 2012

teratos said:
I have been pulled over a few times in the past couple of years while carrying, and I have had one encounter with an LEO at a gas station when my attire screamed "I have a gun".

When I first got my permit, I got one of those fancy 5.11 tactical vests. I had my Glock 23 in the inside holster. I was filling up at a gas station. The office walked over, made some small talk "how do you like your car.....", then says:
"are you carrying?
Me: "yes, sir"
Officer: "Do you have a permit for it?"
Me: "I do, would you like to see it?"
Officer: "That won't be necessary, have a good day"

Next couple of times were traffic stops (yeah, I tend to drive a little fast). They all went about the same:

Officer: "License and registration"
I hand my license, registration, and carry permit
Officer: "Why are you handing me your permit?"
Me: "For your safety and mine, you should know that I am legally carrying a firearm, how would you like me to proceed?"
Officer: "Where is the firearm?"
Me: "OWB, at 4 O'Clock"
Officer: "Just don't pull it out and we'll be fine....."

Never had a problem.

Sounds like the police were very polite and professional.

gtodave · Jul 28, 2012

I've had a conversation with a cop or two about this pending law, and most recently, I told one that CCW was coming to MD through the courts.....he plans to "prone out at gunpoint" ANY person he suspects of having a gun. He readily admits that should he find that a person is carrying through casual conversation, that that person would be fine (unhastled), but any call he gets or any "surprise" gun possession, and he's going on the offensive.

He's basically admitting that any Person that he knows ahead of time has a gun; is a bad person. It's going to be a fun couple of years for legally carrying folks

teratos · Jul 28, 2012

corelokt said:
Sounds like the police were very polite and professional.

Most definitely.

gtodave said:
I've had a conversation with a cop or two about this pending law, and most recently, I told one that CCW was coming to MD through the courts.....he plans to "prone out at gunpoint" ANY person he suspects of having a gun. He readily admits that should he find that a person is carrying through casual conversation, that that person would be fine (unhastled), but any call he gets or any "surprise" gun possession, and he's going on the offensive.

He's basically admitting that any Person that he knows ahead of time has a gun; is a bad person. It's going to be a fun couple of years for legally carrying folks

There are going to be a lot of civil suits, then. Does he have a back-up plan for when he loses his job?

clandestine · Jul 28, 2012

gtodave said:
I've had a conversation with a cop or two about this pending law, and most recently, I told one that CCW was coming to MD through the courts.....he plans to "prone out at gunpoint" ANY person he suspects of having a gun. He readily admits that should he find that a person is carrying through casual conversation, that that person would be fine (unhastled), but any call he gets or any "surprise" gun possession, and he's going on the offensive.

He's basically admitting that any Person that he knows ahead of time has a gun; is a bad person. It's going to be a fun couple of years for legally carrying folks

BS. No cop, especially several are going to say such absurd thing to someone in a casual conversation. If they actually did they were probably referring to YOU because if you re anything in real life like you are here about Cops its gonna catch up to you one day.

Indiana Jones · Jul 28, 2012

clandestine said:
BS. No cop, especially several are going to say such absurd thing to someone in a casual conversation. If they actually did they were probably referring to YOU because if you re anything in real life like you are here about Cops its gonna catch up to you one day.

I wasn't gonna say anything but I agree. That's total ********. Ask me how I know..

Whatever was actually said was distorted or taken out of context for inflammatory use.

Kilroy · Jul 28, 2012

I feel like a broken record, but with proper attire, holster, and not acting like a paranoid weirdo, nobody else should realize you're carrying a gun. Also, stop touching your gun, it's still where you left it. That was a habit that was hard to break.

clandestine · Jul 28, 2012

Kilroy said:
I feel like a broken record, but with proper attire, holster, and not acting like a paranoid weirdo, nobody else should realize you're carrying a gun. Also, stop touching your gun, it's still where you left it. That was a habit that was hard to break.

Insanity! Insanity I say!

Asking people to act like reasonable armed people is infringing on their Constutional Rights.

mikec · Jul 28, 2012

One of the venues I work at has off duty Baltimore officers on site as security. In the past my target shooting has come up with one of the officers. (That officer said he belonged to Delta)

I was thinking of asking one of the guys if they have been talking about the increased # of permits in the future.

Brychan · Jul 28, 2012

I have only had a few encounters with police, but have found that if you behave as a citizen (one without a chip on their shoulder) and treat the officer with the very same respect you want, things usually go very well. Only had one bad encounter with a cop who was a bit too full of himself, but I kept my cool and other than a BS ticket it was painless.

Eviljagtech · Jul 28, 2012

The only 2 places in my life I have been harassed/ had trouble with the police are here in Montgomery County (only late night around 2am, afternoon people wave and smile) and NY State Police how would make Hitler proud but they aren't MD. I find it best to give the police the info they ask for and nothing they don't ask or need to know as the amount of laws in MD and the US make it to hard to find which ones your breaking.

What I do is answer every question honestly and truthfully, look them in the eye at all times and smile. If they ask if there is a weapon in the car then tell them, if not then don't, if your not braking the law you should have nothing to worry about.

Chris · Jul 28, 2012

I have carried for 30+ in Maryland and other states and have never had a problem. In fact I was the one who informed the officer that I was armed, as earlier posted, handing over my drivers license and handgun permit and letting he/she know exactly where it was along with the extra magazines. I have never gotten more then a "Thank you or what do you carry". Many good points to carry have been made in this thread, when general carry permits are issued please remember this thread. Again as I have stated before it's better that I know I have a weapon and no one else unless LEO or a threat. Chris

Safetech · Jul 28, 2012

clandestine said:
I have had the same experiences BTW, but then again Im a badge licker.

They say, "Admitting you have a problem is the first step".

LEOs and increased carry

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