Wrenn PI Granted (DC Shall Issue)

Patrick · May 19, 2015

Turbohugh said:
I think you're exaggerating be but maybe from the hills and valleys of Calvert Co. DC seems like this evil place.

...

DC, LA, San Diego, NYC, Silicon Valley, Phoenix, Bangkok...Calvert is just where I live. If you knew me you'd be more judicious in your condescension.

And seeing as how you are so well versed in the world of DC, please explain to us kids in class the procedures to be followed when a contract security guard or uniformed civil service doing random searches finds any type of illegal contraband. Who do they contact and how do they document?

Please. Waiting to learn from you.

swinokur · May 19, 2015

DC is special. Just ask them.

You know--like Special Ed
.
.

swamplynx · May 19, 2015

swinokur said:
DC can be overzealous in enforcing it's gun laws.

Right. In general MPD seems to have a very reasonable, professional and pragmatic enforcement style. The officers in the firearms reg office are some of the most professional and friendly DC Gov employees I have dealt with. There is real police work after all to be done out there in 5,6, and 7D. You seem to have to be doing something egregiously stupid to illicit a traffic stop, or just unlucky enough to be speeding by a patrol that is specifically tasked to traffic enforcement....

All those kind things being said, if someone without a registered firearm got pulled over for a simple traffic stop and had a spent 12GA shell in plain sight from some innocent skeet shooting earlier in the day, I have no doubt that there is a 95% chance they would throw the book at you. The officers would make an arrest, and the AG would happily railroad you. Now you have a record, a ton of atty fees, and if your job requires not having a record, your livelihood could be in jeopardy as well.

swinokur · May 19, 2015

Hence the post about getting a permit even if you have no intention of carrying.

Good advice given some of the anecdotal evidence posted.

Schipperke · May 19, 2015

jbrown50 said:
As long as you have a registered firearm in DC you can possess ammunition. The ammunition doesn't have to be the same caliber that's listed on the certificate and card of the registered firearm(s).

One of my registered guns is a Glock 27 that's listed on the card and certificate as .40 S&W. I converted it to 357 Sig a year ago. I made sure it was ok to do so under the regulations without having to update the paperwork.

I know a guy from Maryland. He was in the lobby of DC police HQ, emptying his pockets to go through the scanner and recognized he had a round in his pocket...

swamplynx · May 19, 2015

swinokur said:
Hence the post about getting a permit even if you have no intention of carrying.

Good advice given some of the anecdotal evidence posted.

DC-W · May 19, 2015

Baltimore Sun picked it up
http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/nation-world/sns-bc-us--dc-gun-laws-20150519-story.html

jbrown50 · May 19, 2015

swamplynx said:
Right. In general MPD seems to have a very reasonable, professional and pragmatic enforcement style. The officers in the firearms reg office are some of the most professional and friendly DC Gov employees I have dealt with. There is real police work after all to be done out there in 5,6, and 7D. You seem to have to be doing something egregiously stupid to illicit a traffic stop, or just unlucky enough to be speeding by a patrol that is specifically tasked to traffic enforcement....

All those kind things being said, if someone without a registered firearm got pulled over for a simple traffic stop and had a empty 12GA shell in plain sight from some innocent skeet shooting earlier in the day, I have no doubt that there is a 95% chance they would throw the book at you. The officers would make an arrest, and the AG would happily railroad you. Now you have a record, a ton of atty fees, and if your job requires not having a record, your livelihood could be in jeopardy as well.

Besides the DC Police you have the US Park Police, US Capitol Police, Federal Protective Service (Dept. Of Homeland Security) and US Secret Service Uniformed who all make traffic stops depending upon what part of the city you're in. There are also many different federal police agencies that can grab you and your vehicle depending on what grounds you're on and where you're parked, not to mention the federal agents Deputy US Marshals and military police.

press1280 · May 19, 2015

esqappellate said:
The practical outcome remains to be seen. But using Palmer as a guide, my guess is that DC will ask for a stay pending appeal (they have a right to an immediate appeal) and Gura will consent to a limited time stay, as he did in Palmer. The D.C. Circuit will likely grant a stay pending appeal so as to preserve the status quo and prevent the rivers of blood from flowing through DC streets (wait, you say, don't the bad guys shoot innocent people in DC anyhow? Tut, tut, don't bother me with the facts). So applying now will like either be (1) denied outright or (2) held pending appellate disposition. Now a denial has potential consequences. Many states ask if you have been denied a permit and you would have to answer that question affirmatively. Would that matter to the state, given that it is DC? I don't know.

I hope Gura doesn't budge an inch. The original plaintiffs have gone 6 years with no relief. You can damn well bet if the roles were reversed DC wouldn't either. No more Mr. Nice guy, it just leads to more delays.

As far as the denial affecting future CCWs, I think that's more of a myth than reality. I haven't heard of any cases where someone was actually denied. I specifically disclosed on my Maine application that I had been denied in NJ for lack of "justifiable need". Permit showed up a few weeks later, no questions asked.

esqappellate · May 19, 2015

press1280 said:
I hope Gura doesn't budge an inch. The original plaintiffs have gone 6 years with no relief. You can damn well bet if the roles were reversed DC wouldn't either. No more Mr. Nice guy, it just leads to more delays.

As far as the denial affecting future CCWs, I think that's more of a myth than reality. I haven't heard of any cases where someone was actually denied. I specifically disclosed on my Maine application that I had been denied in NJ for lack of "justifiable need". Permit showed up a few weeks later, no questions asked.

Agreed. But it is a consideration. More apt is whether folks want to take the time and $ to file an application while this appeal process is underway. Time is $$ for me. As to Gura, he is a realist. If he doesn't budge, then they just run off to the court of appeals and get a stay in short order. Not a lot of sense in that. The game is much bigger than these individual plaintiffs. I am certain they understand that.

Armadillofz1 · May 19, 2015

It's simply bad for business. If this stands, crime will drop. We can't have that. Statistics will show that CCW holders didn't open the floodgates of blood upon the streets. Their whole model will fall apart. The emperor will be proven to not be wearing any clothes. Again, We can't have that.

danb · May 19, 2015

Not that i have doubt... but has DC asked for or indicated theyll ask for a stay? I have not seen much in the papers.

esqappellate · May 19, 2015

danb said:
Not that i have doubt... but has DC asked for or indicated theyll ask for a stay? I have not seen much in the papers.

Too soon. I would be amazed if they didn't. But ...........

swinokur · May 19, 2015

They appealed Heller. Some advised them not to. They did anyway.You can't change the minds of these people.

As long as they think they have a scintilla of prevailing, they will continue until there is no path left.

Just an uneducated observation.

swinokur · May 19, 2015

DC-W said:
Baltimore Sun picked it up
http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/nation-world/sns-bc-us--dc-gun-laws-20150519-story.html

Wow, Chief Lanier said she will drop the Good reason requirement even before a decision on an appeal is made.

Maybe just to go on the record?

Mr H · May 19, 2015

swinokur said:
Wow, Chief Lanier said she will drop the Good reason requirement even before a decision on an appeal is made.

Maybe just to go on the record?

IIRC, she cooed conciliatory early on in Palmer, too, then locked down.

I'm not trusting her... even with the new 'do.

swinokur · May 19, 2015

agreed. She jut wants to look like they're in compliance with the injunction.

Until she's not.

The leopard and her spots and all.

Armadillofz1 · May 19, 2015

"About 100 people have applied for permits, and very few have been denied, she said.

"The vast majority of people applying for permits to carry in the District are not D.C. residents," Lanier said on NewsChannel 8's "NewsTalk" program. "Our residents are very clear that this is not something they wanted."

Maybe people dont want to risk loosing the insanely high applicatin fee on a gamble that they will not be approved.

Mr H · May 19, 2015

Armadillofz1 said:
"About 100 people have applied for permits, and very few have been denied, she said.

"The vast majority of people applying for permits to carry in the District are not D.C. residents," Lanier said on NewsChannel 8's "NewsTalk" program. "Our residents are very clear that this is not something they wanted."

Maybe people dont want to risk loosing the insanely high applicatin fee on a gamble that they will not be approved.

Wife just read me that exact quote off the Ch 7 article...

My response??

The residents generally either can't afford it, or know they'd be denied for 'other' issues... so they don't apply!

press1280 · May 19, 2015

Armadillofz1 said:
"About 100 people have applied for permits, and very few have been denied, she said.

"The vast majority of people applying for permits to carry in the District are not D.C. residents," Lanier said on NewsChannel 8's "NewsTalk" program. "Our residents are very clear that this is not something they wanted."

Maybe people dont want to risk loosing the insanely high applicatin fee on a gamble that they will not be approved.

Last I heard very few had been denied because over half of the applications weren't listed as approved or denied (still in process I assume). So yea, she won't deny you for not having "good cause" but she'll sit on your application. IIRC the law is really vague on permit processing times, so she wouldn't be violating the law by holding until DC gets its stay.

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