OAL Question

Fonzy · Sep 25, 2018

Just purchased a pistol, with an OAL of 17.6in. I also purchased a stabilizer brace with an OAL of 10.5in, which in total is 28.1in. I'm a bit confused with what I have now. It seems it's too long to be an SBR, and too short to be a "rifle"?? Can anyone help me clarify what I have going on, please? I'm still learning. Thanks!

Hawkeye · Sep 25, 2018

What pistol, and what brace?

That said:

It seems it's too long to be an SBR

It is not an SBR, because it is a PISTOL, and not a RIFLE. An SBR is a rifle (rifled barrel and shoulder stock) with a barrel of less than 16" in length.

too short to be a "rifle"??

It's not a rifle either, same reason as above. To be a rifle, it has to have the physical characteristics of a rifle, one of which is having a shoulder stock. A brace is *not* a shoulder stock, so you don't have a rifle.

What you have, if the OAL of the whole thing is over 26", is a "firearm." It's an odd sort of legal middle ground based around the physical definition of "pistol" and "rifle" and the fact that guns like yours don't properly fit into either of those categories. It's not a rifle because it has no stock. However, the legal definition of "pistol" includes that it must be concealable which means an OAL of less than 26." Since yours is longer than that, then it's neither a pistol nor a rifle, but a "firearm."

Also, to further complicate things, all of the preceding is the Federal definition of those things. Maryland would legally still consider your firearm a pistol.

Fonzy · Sep 25, 2018

Hawkeye said:
What pistol, and what brace?

That said:

It is not an SBR, because it is a PISTOL, and not a RIFLE. An SBR is a rifle (rifled barrel and shoulder stock) with a barrel of less than 16" in length.

It's not a rifle either, same reason as above. To be a rifle, it has to have the physical characteristics of a rifle, one of which is having a shoulder stock. A brace is *not* a shoulder stock, so you don't have a rifle.

What you have, if the OAL of the whole thing is over 26", is a "firearm." It's an odd sort of legal middle ground based around the physical definition of "pistol" and "rifle" and the fact that guns like yours don't properly fit into either of those categories. It's not a rifle because it has no stock. However, the legal definition of "pistol" includes that it must be concealable which means an OAL of less than 26." Since yours is longer than that, then it's neither a pistol nor a rifle, but a "firearm."

Also, to further complicate things, all of the preceding is the Federal definition of those things. Maryland would legally still consider your firearm a pistol.

PTR 600 (MP5 clone), and a SB Tactical HK Side Folding Pistol Stabilizer Brace. From what I've read, I agree that I'm in some type of middle ground.

Hawkeye · Sep 25, 2018

Ahh gotcha. Yeah, if you measure from the muzzle (no muzzle device unless it's permanent) to the rear of the brace and it's over 26" in OAL, then you have a "firearm." The nice thing about that is that you can install a VFG for that MP5K look if you want and not have made an illegal AOW like you would have if you'd installed it on a "pistol."

Fonzy · Sep 25, 2018

Thank you for the info! I just wanted to make sure I wasn't doing anything wrong with adding the brace. I can find a lot of info for everything, except this middle ground I've found myself in, haha.

Hawkeye · Sep 25, 2018

No problem!

If it's just the brace you're asking about, you're totally fine with it.

danb · Sep 25, 2018

Just keep in mind that little footnote: Maryland legally still considers it a pistol., which is the important part. i.e. for transport and carry purposes. Which means, to and from range and thats about it.

swinokur · Sep 26, 2018

I thought MD 5-101 said a pistol has a barrel length of <16".

This has a barrel of over 16" nand an OAL > 26" so why does MD consider it a handgun?

Sticky · Sep 26, 2018

swinokur said:
I thought MD 5-101 said a pistol has a barrel length of <16".

This has a barrel of over 16" nand an OAL > 26" so why does MD consider it a handgun?

The barrel length has to be less than 16" if the oal of the weapon, even with no stock/buffer tube is 17.6" per the OP's first post... it's a pistol

swinokur · Sep 26, 2018

Ok then how can a VFG be installed and it’s not an AOW?

Just trying to get clarification

Sticky · Sep 26, 2018

swinokur said:
Ok then how can a VFG be installed and it’s not an AOW?

Just trying to get clarification

ATF says the VFG can be installed on a 'pistol' of over 26" oal length and because it is not 'easily concealable', it is now considered a 'firearm' (after adding the vfg), not an AOW. I suppose the fact that it is now over 26" makes it somehow not concealable. Oh... they also qualify that by saying you cannot attempt to 'conceal' it on the person.

I have the letter explaining it and it has been posted here somewhere.

swinokur · Sep 26, 2018

I have that. What I don’t get is if it’s over 26” in OAL why does MD still consider it a pistol for transport purposes as another post indicates

Is the difference that MD doesn’t consider the brace as adding to the OAL?

I am confused

Sticky · Sep 26, 2018

We are all confused. I think that's why MD still considers it a handgun, just to further confuse us... :lol2:

In the case of an AR pistol the brace really doesn't add to the oal, so that's a moot point. I have no idea how MD figures it's still a pistol (I suspect based only on bbl length), but I have been told that as well.

Fonzy · Sep 26, 2018

I’m just glad I’m not the only one confused here! This makes my head spin!!!!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

danb · Sep 26, 2018

swinokur said:
I have that. What I don’t get is if it’s over 26” in OAL why does MD still consider it a pistol for transport purposes as another post indicates

Is the difference that MD doesn’t consider the brace as adding to the OAL?

I am confused

ok, I take back what I said. I looked at 4-201 and it says a "handgun" is a pistol or revolver "capable of being concealed on the person" and a SBR is "a rifle that has one or more barrels less than 16 inches long." It does not reference barrel length for pistol in this section. If the OAL is >26" it would not seem to be concealable.

swinokur · Sep 26, 2018

Ok. My point was if it’s over 26” it’s not considered concealable at least to BATFE. So I assume MD agrees.

dblas · Sep 26, 2018

swinokur said:
I have that. What I don’t get is if it’s over 26” in OAL why does MD still consider it a pistol for transport purposes as another post indicates

Is the difference that MD doesn’t consider the brace as adding to the OAL?

I am confused

Maryland only recognizes rifles, shotguns, and pistols. There is no definition of firearm in Maryland law, like there is in federal law.

swinokur · Sep 26, 2018

So if has a barrel over 16” but is intended to be fired with one hand what does MD say it is? If it's concealable MD says it''s a handgun.

MD statute does say a “Firearm” that is “concealable” is considered a handgun. So it does reference the term "firearm"

dblas · Sep 26, 2018

swinokur said:
So if has a barrel over 16” but is intended to be fired with one hand what does MD say it is? If it's concealable MD says it''s a handgun.

MD statute does say a “Firearm” that is “concealable” is considered a handgun. So it does reference the term "firearm"

But MD Statute does NOT define firearm, which was what I stated. MD Statute defines pistol, rifle, and shotgun.

MD statute considers a pistol a pistol regardless of the length of the barell, whereas ATF defines any pistol with a barrel over 16 inches and an OAL over 26 inches, as a firearm.

swinokur · Sep 27, 2018

From MD statute 5-101.

Seems like it's defined to me.
.

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