More Guns, Less Crime - Minnesota Edition

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  • DC-W

    Ultimate Member
    Patriot Picket
    Jan 23, 2013
    25,290
    ️‍
    Minnesota had it's largest number of background checks conducted in a single year in 2017 and is still near record lows for violent crime.

    By the end of 2017, Minnesota had 283,188 concealed carry permit holders.
    Roughly a third of Minnesotans own at least one firearm.

    http://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2018/02/15/reality-check-gun-permit-background-checks/

    In comparison, there are only ~22,000 active carry permit holders in MD and most of those permits are restricted in some way. MN has over 12 times as many people carrying concealed firearms without restrictions and doesn't suffer anywhere near the same amount of violence we see here.
     

    redeemed.man

    Ultimate Member
    Apr 29, 2013
    17,444
    HoCo
    Minnesota had it's largest number of background checks conducted in a single year in 2017 and is still near record lows for violent crime.

    By the end of 2017, Minnesota had 283,188 concealed carry permit holders.
    Roughly a third of Minnesotans own at least one firearm.

    http://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2018/02/15/reality-check-gun-permit-background-checks/

    In comparison, there are only ~22,000 active carry permit holders in MD and most of those permits are restricted in some way. MN has over 12 times as many people carrying concealed firearms without restrictions and doesn't suffer anywhere near the same amount of violence we see here.
    And that's while Minneapolis has been heavily infiltrated by particularly violent Somalian Muslims.
     

    rascal

    Ultimate Member
    Feb 15, 2013
    1,253
    Roughly a third of Minnesotans own at least one firearm.

    correction:
    Roughly 37% of Minnesotans will tell a complete stranger, knocking on their door, holding clip board and form that includes their address where answers are recorded, that there is a firearm at that home, despite modern firearms training that says not to.

    Face to face surveying like this is establish to garner 50% under-counts on privacy related matters like gun ownership, and telephone polling by more well known organizations like Gallup see about a 40% under-count.
     

    DC-W

    Ultimate Member
    Patriot Picket
    Jan 23, 2013
    25,290
    ️‍
    correction:
    Roughly 37% of Minnesotans will tell a complete stranger, knocking on their door, holding clip board and form that includes their address where answers are recorded, that there is a firearm at that home, despite modern firearms training that says not to.

    Face to face surveying like this is establish to garner 50% under-counts on privacy related matters like gun ownership, and telephone polling by more well known organizations like Gallup see about a 40% under-count.

    I should have worded that better
     

    Juche90

    Active Member
    May 10, 2014
    414
    correction:
    Roughly 37% of Minnesotans will tell a complete stranger, knocking on their door, holding clip board and form that includes their address where answers are recorded, that there is a firearm at that home, despite modern firearms training that says not to.

    Face to face surveying like this is establish to garner 50% under-counts on privacy related matters like gun ownership, and telephone polling by more well known organizations like Gallup see about a 40% under-count.



    They are Minnesotans and that’s the way they are. If they agree to answer the questions they are going to be honest, even with complete strangers (most of their training is hunters safety in middle school and honesty on surveys surely wasn’t covered) and they will see this as a positive.

    Firearms ownership is not uncommon at all in Minnesota and I can’t think of a home that I knew of that didn’t have one. In fact most homes have at least a couple shot guns and a couple deer rifles. About a month before deer season it is not a strange sight to see people sighting in rifles in gravel pits along side busy highways. So owning a gun is not taboo like it is out here but considered normal.

    Also, Minnesota simply doesn’t have the type of crime we do here or say Chicago. Maybe that’s because the people are armed, maybe it’s their culture, maybe some of both. It is for the most part a rural state with rural values with two population centers (Twin Cities - 2 million and Duluth 250k). When there is violent crime it is a huge deal and makes statewide headlines.




    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     

    rascal

    Ultimate Member
    Feb 15, 2013
    1,253
    They are Minnesotans and that’s the way they are. If they agree to answer the questions they are going to be honest, even with complete strangers (most of their training is hunters safety in middle school and honesty on surveys surely wasn’t covered) and they will see this as a positive.

    Firearms ownership is not uncommon at all in Minnesota and I can’t think of a home that I knew of that didn’t have one. In fact most homes have at least a couple shot guns and a couple deer rifles. About a month before deer season it is not a strange sight to see people sighting in rifles in gravel pits along side busy highways. So owning a gun is not taboo like it is out here but considered normal.

    Also, Minnesota simply doesn’t have the type of crime we do here or say Chicago. Maybe that’s because the people are armed, maybe it’s their culture, maybe some of both. It is for the most part a rural state with rural values with two population centers (Twin Cities - 2 million and Duluth 250k). When there is violent crime it is a huge deal and makes statewide headlines.

    OK, yoy say "In fact most homes have at least a couple shot guns and a couple deer rifles." GSS surveying says 37%. That is not most. So you are saying a large number of of Minnesota gun owners will lie to GSS. That is exactly what I am saying.

    so sure, maybe only 10%-20% of rural people who do own guns will say no, because it is less of a secret. Most Minnesotans are NOT rural people though.

    But a gun owning 35 year old young minority women, a 40 guy who is say schoolteacher in Minneapolis or St Paul, a person who is a committed Democrat but owns a smile auto pistol, are mostly NOT going to tell a complete stranger calling, or a local hire kid with a a paper badge that anyone can print on a printer, banging on their door -- when their trainer, or cop brother in law, who recommended the gun in the first place, or just plain common sense about increasing burglary rate, will tell a pollster they have one at home.

    To think everyone who keeps cash or jewelry in their homes will tell a complete stranger calling or banging on their door they have cash or jewelry there? It is NOT about dishonesty.

    I am an honest and forthright person, If I was asked by a pollster I would say exactly what my NRA basic pistol told me a very long time ago -- never tell a stranger you have a gun at home. I would NOT say "I decline to answer." I would say: No.


    Now sure undercounts of gun ownership are probably less in rural Minnesota, or Montana, or rural Kentucky. white 60 year old guys who grew up hunting (a semi social activity) and sporting NRA stickers are not going to see this as super secret so if I bang on the doors of 100 of those who actually do own a gun maybe 80 ill tell me they own a gun.

    I believe if I do the same thing in Baltimore or Minneapolis, 100% of those who illegally onw a gun will say "no" and maybe 75% who legally own them will say "no."

    I will go with the peer reviewed science. if I go around face to face asking who has smoked dope, who is gay, who has had an affair, I am not going to end up with X% are gay, but rather X% will tell me they are gay.

    Again self reported in ownerships by household is probably half of what actual gun ownership is, and the younger you are, the more suburban or urban you are, and if yo are a woman, the more likely you are to deny ownership to a stranger -- so not only are raw numbers undercounts, claims that surveys reflect true demographics are also utterly bogus.

    The absurd undercounts, and asserting that "self reported gun ownership= gun ownership" are VERY important to the gun ban lobby. The saying Washington -- and state legislatures - is: if you don't get counted -- you don't count. Lawmakers feel a lot more confident about banning guns if they think only a minority own them.

    Key narratives of Bloomberg's groups:
    USgun ownership is 30% (false and likely a good majority own guns)
    US gun and on a long term decline (also false)

    Don't repeat false narratives, it enables the gun control people
     

    Dave Taylor

    Senior Member
    May 29, 2012
    2,512
    Don't cha know!

    You betcha' der', gol' dum'!. :)

    Ollie an Lena.JPG
     

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