Bullet placement is the key

TGM said:

Not everyone that came back multiple times came back screwed up. My MOS was 11B then reclassed to 63H after my hip injuries. The units that were there is actually classified information. If you served message me for more details.

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Magnumite said:

Given...from the opening post accurate equates to precision. Technically incorrect but this is a firearms discussion and accurate is used to indicate an accuracy with precision.

Once upon a time, when I started shooting, it was bench rested groups were used to report accuracy and precision in the arm, fundamentally handguns. For long guns it was and is a given. Slowly it eroded into "combat hand held accuracy"...many times meant excuses for less than stellar skill or precision arms. Really, the subject pistol used can hit a humanoid target at 10 yards is proof of good 'accuracy'? For the once a monther...maybe. In the past year or two the rested group accuracy has been more prevalent in firearms review articles...finally. I personally have gotten rid of several firearms because they were not capable of the level of repeatable precision I could utilize. I may not be the best shot but I can tell the difference between a near contact distance COM blaster and a capable distance arm.

To both a beginner and a seasoned, capable shooter the arm should have at least somewhat greater and accurately repeatable precision than they are presently capable of realizing (that ought to start something). Without it, feedback from shot placements will not be reliable and improvement will not be optimum. Many shooters realize there is more than just shot placement on target needed to improve but this is an accuracy/shooter thread.

So, yes, "Everyone is always asking about the firearm's accuracy but the real question is "how good is the shooter?"". In the same breath don't pass off less than credible guns and say it's the shooter. Both are needed (duh...just thought I would say it). Inexperienced shooters will not see how inaccurate they are until someone shoots their capable arm and demostrates it's potential. Then they will KNOW SERIOUS practice is in order. I knew that when a shooter put one ragged hole in a target 15 yards away with my Security Six when I was starting out. I'll never forget the day and the lesson.

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lee2 said:

I prefer to curve my bullets to my target.

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outrider58 said:

This kind of spurs a though. Something that has always bugged me(but just a little)- "This rifle gun(for ease of discussion) shoots better than I do". I always want to ask "how do you know?" I know what they are saying. It just seems unnecessary to say.

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fidelity said:

I once owned a Mini-14 that had a 2-7x Vortex scope. I don't think that I could do more on my part to squeeze past the 2-3 MOA that I was getting at the range. However if one of my AR's groupings is showing more than a 2 inch spread at 100 yards and I'm using magnified optics (usually a 1-6x), that's probably all me. I would stay away from the cliche that you brought up of course , as it's variant of the one that I mentioned upthread.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

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Zzzzz_man said:

Just glad to know you made it back in one piece. I was also an 11B and 11H but served in Berlin during the mid-70's to early-80's.

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Blacksmith101 said:

I have taught kids to shoot for more than 30 years and they always want to point out the hole closest to the center of the bulls eye and I always ask them about the snowbirds out in the white.

If you want to get better focus on group size not where the group is on the target because if you can shoot a tight group we can move the point of impact by adjusting the sights (seldom do two people shoot a particular gun to the same zero). The way to shoot tighter groups is to do the same thing the same way every time and when every group is a similar size and they wont get any smaller then start changing one thing at a time and study the results. If the groups get better keep doing the change if they don't get smaller then go back to what you were doing and try a different change. I tell the kids when you know exactly where every shot should hit, based on the sight alignment and sight picture at the instant the gun goes off, then you will know if that flyer was caused by the equipment or the shooter.

I see people at the range who are happy if they hit the gong somewhere six out of ten shots (they think they are a world class sniper). I am still trying to make them all go through the same hole (as a kid one of my instructors was 1948 Olympic Gold Medalist Arthur E. Cook and I watched him put a box of 50 .22 LR through a single hole, the size of pinky fingernail, in a target at 50 feet just to prove there were no "flyers" because of the ammunition).

Here are three resources to make you a better shooter, start reading study the basics:
CMP Coaching Resources
http://thecmp.org/training-tech/coaching-resources/

USAMU Pistol Marksmanship Guide
http://www.bullseyepistol.com/amucover.htm

USAMU International Rifle Marksmanship Guide
http://pdf.textfiles.com/manuals/MILITARY/us army international rifle marksmanship guide.pdf

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Blacksmith101 said:

If you want to get better focus on group size not where the group is on the target because if you can shoot a tight group we can move the point of impact by adjusting the sights (seldom do two people shoot a particular gun to the same zero). The way to shoot tighter groups is to do the same thing the same way every time and when every group is a similar size and they wont get any smaller then start changing one thing at a time and study the results. If the groups get better keep doing the change if they don't get smaller then go back to what you were doing and try a different change. I tell the kids when you know exactly where every shot should hit, based on the sight alignment and sight picture at the instant the gun goes off, then you will know if that flyer was caused by the equipment or the shooter.
[/B]

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Blacksmith101 said:

If you want to get better focus on group size not where the group is on the target because if you can shoot a tight group we can move the point of impact by adjusting the sights (seldom do two people shoot a particular gun to the same zero).

I tell the kids when you know exactly where every shot should hit, based on the sight alignment and sight picture at the instant the gun goes off, then you will know if that flyer was caused by the equipment or the shooter.

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Biggfoot44 said:

"How do you Know" & " The gun is * always * more accurate than the shooter " .

Not to seem to have a swelled head , but I have a reasonable idea of my shooting capabilities within various parameters , when using a firearm of sufficient accuracy. Along the lines of " once I achieve a group size of X.x , under certain conditions , I can no longer seperate the guns ability vs my ability " .

So yes , I have shot guns that were less accurate than my abilities . The subsequent decision then becomes , is the gun/ ammo/ optic if present sufficiently accurate for its intended purposes ?

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lee2 said:

I prefer to curve my bullets to my target.

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outrider58 said:

"The Repeatable Swing"

Form golf to riflery to archery, this principal holds true. I load all of my own ammo(except .223 plinking ammo and .22LR). Rarely have I had a 'flier'. I strive to know where each shot will hit. I'm by no means an expert marksman, but I continually strive to improve every range trip. I have good days and bad. It's mostly a head game.

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Blacksmith101 said:

I have taught kids to shoot for more than 30 years and they always want to point out the hole closest to the center of the bulls eye and I always ask them about the snowbirds out in the white.

If you want to get better focus on group size not where the group is on the target because if you can shoot a tight group we can move the point of impact by adjusting the sights (seldom do two people shoot a particular gun to the same zero). The way to shoot tighter groups is to do the same thing the same way every time and when every group is a similar size and they wont get any smaller then start changing one thing at a time and study the results. If the groups get better keep doing the change if they don't get smaller then go back to what you were doing and try a different change. I tell the kids when you know exactly where every shot should hit, based on the sight alignment and sight picture at the instant the gun goes off, then you will know if that flyer was caused by the equipment or the shooter.

I see people at the range who are happy if they hit the gong somewhere six out of ten shots (they think they are a world class sniper). I am still trying to make them all go through the same hole (as a kid one of my instructors was 1948 Olympic Gold Medalist Arthur E. Cook and I watched him put a box of 50 .22 LR through a single hole, the size of pinky fingernail, in a target at 50 feet just to prove there were no "flyers" because of the ammunition).

Here are three resources to make you a better shooter, start reading study the basics:
CMP Coaching Resources
http://thecmp.org/training-tech/coaching-resources/

USAMU Pistol Marksmanship Guide
http://www.bullseyepistol.com/amucover.htm

USAMU International Rifle Marksmanship Guide
http://pdf.textfiles.com/manuals/MILITARY/us army international rifle marksmanship guide.pdf

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TGM said:

Thank you for your service my Brother.

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