Soon to be gun owner needs advice and stuff

ImperatorZices · Jan 3, 2010

Thanks a lot for that. I was looking for that exact list just now. I actually decided to email the FFL you mentioned (taking care to be polite), and I am awaiting his thoughts on the matter. Also, Classic Arms (the site I planned on buying from) requires an FFL to make a purchase. If he deems the firearm sell-able to me, should I ask him to request that the mags be shipped to the post office? Do you think he would be willing to do so, or should I start looking elsewhere for mags now?

redduck21502 · Jan 3, 2010

ImperatorZices said:
Thanks a lot for that. I was looking for that exact list just now.

Just a side note:

You used to be able to search "MD Assault Weapon ban" and it would bring up the list of regulated firearms on the Brady Campaign site with the title of "The following assault weapons are banned in MD". I always thought it was funny that they are not banned, but regulated. The Brady Campaign apparently wants to lie to Marylanders and make them think that the AK-47, AR-15, etc are banned in MD. I guess if they were at a range and saw one, they would think we were terrorists with illegal guns.

MarkP, that is great information. I agree too about FFLs listening to the MSP over obeying the letter of the law. If they listen to the MSP all the time, they would regulate everything they could based on looks. I guess if it doesn't work out for the OP, he can go to VA to find a dealer that will read the MD law and sell it to him over the counter. I know it has happened with other rifles that the MSP says is a regulated weapon but in reality it is not.

Markp · Jan 3, 2010

ImperatorZices said:
Thanks a lot for that. I was looking for that exact list just now. I actually decided to email the FFL you mentioned (taking care to be polite), and I am awaiting his thoughts on the matter. Also, Classic Arms (the site I planned on buying from) requires an FFL to make a purchase. If he deems the firearm sell-able to me, should I ask him to request that the mags be shipped to the post office? Do you think he would be willing to do so, or should I start looking elsewhere for mags now?

Normally with him it doesn't work that way. You actually do the ordering, so what would happen is you provide him the fax number for classic arms.

So he will want this number, Classic Arms Fax: 1-704-684-0674

He will fax his FFL to Classic Arms, you then call Classic Arms and pay for the weapon and shipping and they ship it to him. When it arrives you go to his place fill out the 4473 and pay him the $40 or so dollars for the transfer. He hands you the rifle and you ride off into the sunset.

When you call Classic Arms, you explain to them that the Magazines cannot be shipped to Maryland and that you would like them shipped to your alternate mailing address:

A. Person (This would be your full name!)
Attn: General Delivery
1100 Wythe Street
Alexandria, VA
22314

Go to the post office and pick up your mags after your rifle arrives. If they won't do that, ask for a credit for the Mags, call up Apex or Centerfire and have the order for a few mags shipped to VA.

Simple.

Mark

PS - As far as Email to that FFL, he doesn't live on the net like you or I do. He checks once or twice a day from what I can tell.

PPS - I just read Classics shipping policy, it looks like THE BUYER MUST HAVE EXPRESS PERMISSION FROM THE FFL DEALER WHO WILL BE RECEIVING THE FIREARM FOR TRANSFER AND WE MUST HAVE A COPY OF THE DEALERS FFL ON FILE AT THE TIME THE ORDER IS PLACED. You should have no problem with that.

ImperatorZices · Jan 3, 2010

So, I should just wait for him to agree to the transfer, and then place the order (he still hasn't answered my previous email)?

Markp · Jan 3, 2010

ImperatorZices said:
So, I should just wait for him to agree to the transfer, and then place the order (he still hasn't answered my previous email)?

Ya, basically as soon as you hear from him that he is willing to do the transfer, and you shoot him back the fax number, he will let you know when he has faxed it over. He's usually pretty good about it. Usually does it same day.

He has been great to deal with, no BS, very organized and always on the ball. Don't be afraid to call him during decent hours either. If you get a busy signal be patient, he's usually pretty busy.

He has handled all my regulated purchases in state so far, and a few unregulated ones as well. I do all my own C&R purchases since I have a C&R license. I would highly suggest you look into getting a C&R license. Nothing like it. Guns shipped to your door, 30 bucks for 3 years, some cool cheap guns out there. SKS, Tokarev, CZ's, Mausers, Garands, etc.

Mark

ImperatorZices · Jan 3, 2010

Yeah, I got the C&R license forms a few months ago, but I decided not to finish them when I discovered a line stating that if I didn't have a hunting license, I would not likely be granted the C&R.

So, you've personally transferred a VZ through his establishment? And how long have you been shooting?

Markp · Jan 3, 2010

ImperatorZices said:
Yeah, I got the C&R license forms a few months ago, but I decided not to finish them when I discovered a line stating that if I didn't have a hunting license, I would not likely be granted the C&R.

So, you've personally transferred a VZ through his establishment? And how long have you been shooting?

I have transfered VZ receivers through him, yes, 3 of them. I had the same discussion about it being regulated, and I had to show him that I was correct (without sounding like a wanker) about it not being regulated.

I have been shooting since I was 12 (30 years or so) but off and on. I have continually had firearms since I was about 24 years old. You don't need a hunting license to get a C&R license... they have nothing to do with each other. IIRC, You will need to be 21 to get a C&R license (a few weeks for you.) I don't have a hunting license, but I do have a C&R license and a Texas Concealed Handgun License.

Finish the forms and send them in on your birthday, your license (provided you have a clean record) will be approved.

Mark

Threeband · Jan 4, 2010

I remember being confused by that line about the hunting license. It was written by someone who flunked English 101. I think it has something to do with non-U.S. citizens, if I recall.

You don't need a hunting license. Also who your "Chief LEO" is is no big deal. Send a copy to your county Sherrif, or the MDSP Commissioner. Doesn't matter-nobody will hassle you over it.

ImperatorZices · Jan 4, 2010

Hmm... well in that case, maybe I should order a new set of forms (threw away the other ones

).

Also, still waiting for a response from the FFL. In the meantime, anyone else with a VZ care to offer a review? I've read a few others, and the main problem people seem to have with it is parts availability. In addition, it is said to overheat quickly, it's sight radius is even shorter than an AK's, and I have yet to locate a scope mount for it (under $80 I mean

).
Other than that though, is it generally considered better than a similarly priced Century built AK, or should I still keep my options open?
*reopens M70 tab*

Thanks again for all the input guys (and girls...are there any on this thread?)

erwos · Jan 4, 2010

If the VZ-58 is actually cash-and-carry here, that would be hands-down the AK-47 variant I would choose. Gun Digest 2010 has a nice little write-up on it, and it's a pretty sweet little rifle. Magazines are expensive, though.

That said, in your position, I'd lean towards an AK-74 - ammo is MUCH cheaper.

Markp · Jan 4, 2010

erwos said:
If the VZ-58 is actually cash-and-carry here, that would be hands-down the AK-47 variant I would choose. Gun Digest 2010 has a nice little write-up on it, and it's a pretty sweet little rifle. Magazines are expensive, though.

That said, in your position, I'd lean towards an AK-74 - ammo is MUCH cheaper.

The VZ-58 IS NOT AN AK VARIANT!!! UGH! LOL.

The only thing that interchanges between an AK-47 and a VZ-58 is the cartridge.

Mark

rob-cubed · Jan 4, 2010

ImperatorZices said:
Other than that though, is it generally considered better than a similarly priced Century built AK, or should I still keep my options open?

Almost any AK is better than a Century WASR-10! Mine goes bang reliably but it is my least favorite. I would still recommend a Saiga or Saiga-based build if you want a cheap, decent AK. It's still my go-to AK out of all the ones that have passed through my hands.

The AK-74 variant in 5.45 is the way to go if you are starting out--for cost of ammo reasons, plus it's slightly more accurate than 7.62.

Markp · Jan 4, 2010

The VZ is a much nicer gun, in an overall sense than the AK. The AK is cool in its own right but the VZ is more fun in my opinion. Check them out on youtube.

Mark

rob-cubed · Jan 4, 2010

@ Markp
I've always wanted to try out a VZ-58... haven't had the opportunity to handle or shoot one yet. What kind of MOA is typical?

Markp · Jan 4, 2010

rob-cubed said:
@ Markp
I've always wanted to try out a VZ-58... haven't had the opportunity to handle or shoot one yet. What kind of MOA is typical?

Reviewers claim that accuracy is around 2-3 MOA, some claim it's better than that, but I would question that (1-2 MOA). There is an online review that is worth reading, comparing the VZ.58 with the AK.

http://www.tacticalgunfan.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=469&Itemid=1

Go read.

They claim that the typical AK is 4-6 MOA, so I would definitely expect the VZ to be more accurate. There are other variables at play though. Some of the VZ.58 rifles for sale use a US barrel, whereas others used the factory import barrels, which may or may not be more accurate.

There is a lot to like about the VZ.58, it's a solid rifle, milled receiver, lighter than an AK, chrome lined barrel (factory), both folding and fixed stocks, not banned anywhere (except a few states like CA which bans nearly everything that uses a bullet.)

Mark

rob-cubed · Jan 4, 2010

I love their pistols so the VZ-58 has been on my radar for a while... CZ designs and manufactures some fine firearms. A quick check on GunBroker has them running $700+ though... for that price OP has his pick of decent rifles, including a bargain bin CMMG AR or any number of decent AKs. I'd lean towards something with more common mags and parts availability, at least initially, and figuring OP has limited funds to put towards it.

Bigdtc · Jan 4, 2010

rob-cubed said:
I love their pistols so the VZ-58 has been on my radar for a while... CZ designs and manufactures some fine firearms. A quick check on GunBroker has them running $700+ though... for that price OP has his pick of decent rifles, including a bargain bin CMMG AR or any number of decent

...Or a Yugo or Polish... I'm just sayin. :innocent0

Markp · Jan 4, 2010

rob-cubed said:
I love their pistols so the VZ-58 has been on my radar for a while... CZ designs and manufactures some fine firearms. A quick check on GunBroker has them running $700+ though... for that price OP has his pick of decent rifles, including a bargain bin CMMG AR or any number of decent AKs. I'd lean towards something with more common mags and parts availability, at least initially, and figuring OP has limited funds to put towards it.

Yes, but Classic Arms is selling the VZ for $489. In that price range, there is only 1 non-regulated arm that can compete with it... and that's the SKS. Comparing the VZ.58 with the SKS, is like comparing a Jaguar XKR with a Ford Mustang. Both shoot the 7.62x39 round, but the VZ is in a different league.

Mark

PS - Gun Broker prices are often fantasy. There are also different types of receivers, the D-Technik ones often demand a premium, and there is not much difference between the D-Technik and the ORF receivers for instance other than the price.

Bigdtc · Jan 4, 2010

I have a buddy with a Jag.. The repair/upkeep bills SUCK.
Mustang are easier and cheaper to repair should the need arise and upgrades are easier/cheaper.
I'm not saying anything, I'm just sayin'...

rob-cubed · Jan 5, 2010

Nice find. Classic Arms definitely has a good deal going on the VZ, especially if they are willing to ship the mags to a separate location... I'd hate to replace two mags at a premium of $40 each. MarkP, how hard is it to switch the folding stock? Does the receiver have a removable block, or is that hinge fixed? The wire folders get uncomfortable, especially on a 7.62x39.

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