Soon to be gun owner needs advice and stuff

ImperatorZices · Jan 1, 2010

I am hoping to acquire my first firearm as soon as possible following my Jan 27, 21st birthday. It will likely be an M70AB2 sold on AimSurplus, because I cannot afford anything much better, and I want it to be some kind of EBR.

So, how early can I begin the purchase and transfer process?

Need it all begin after I turn 21, or can I make preparations beforehand?

Does anyone have something of similar price and quality for sale close by?

Is there another product within that price range that one would recommend over the Yugo AK?

Thanks in advance for the well thought out and legally sound answers.

Markp · Jan 2, 2010

ImperatorZices said:
I am hoping to acquire my first firearm as soon as possible following my Jan 27, 21st birthday. It will likely be an M70AB2 sold on AimSurplus, because I cannot afford anything much better, and I want it to be some kind of EBR.

So, how early can I begin the purchase and transfer process?

Need it all begin after I turn 21, or can I make preparations beforehand?

Does anyone have something of similar price and quality for sale close by?

Is there another product within that price range that one would recommend over the Yugo AK?

Thanks in advance for the well thought out and legally sound answers.

Yep... First, you don't have to wait until you are 21 for my first suggestion.

http://www.classicarms.us/

Look for the VZ58, $489. It's a bad ass AK like rifle for the same money but with a milled receiver. It is NOT regulated. You will have to get mags out of state as 30 round mags are all you can get for it. Nothing interchanges with the AK except the cartridge, so don't let any joker try to tell you it's regulated, it's not.

http://www.centerfiresystems.com/DRA-GUN-B.aspx

If you want an AK on steroids, this is the gun to get. Sure, only a 10 round mag, but it's 7.62x54R. Although it is "regulated" even though there is some argument over that... but lets assume that it is. $449.

Mark

ImperatorZices · Jan 2, 2010

The VZ58 looks interesting, though I didn't consider it before due to its use of a proprietary mag. Still now that you mention it, it does seem like a viable alternative. Also, the non-regulated status would be a significant bonus, if only for a reduced transfer fee. Do you know of anywhere near the state border that sells said mags for a decent price, say in the Fairfax VA area?

I looked at the PSL for a bit, but then decided that I wanted something with a higher than 10 rd capacity. Though it still seems to be an attractive option, especially at that price. However, I assume it doesn't come with the scope and accessories as seen on other sites.

Bigdtc · Jan 2, 2010

I have a fixed stock Yugo. It's built like a tank and with that heavier then most AK's. Milled reciever, heavy barrel, above average accuracy, (as AK's go) and worth the few extra $$... Good luck & happy (early) b-day.

Jimbob2.0 · Jan 2, 2010

Advice folders are nice as an accessory but lousy as a firearm. Get a good fixed stock AK or a nice lever action rifle first and then upgrade frequently.

ImperatorZices · Jan 2, 2010

@Biddtc:
Thanks. I was of the understanding that Yugos just had a thicker stamped receiver and a normal-yet-unchromed barrel?

@Jimbob2.0:
If you know of a similarly priced M70B1, you have my undivided attention. I too have had misgivings about the usability of such a stock, and it is one of the few reasons I am looking for an alternative. That and a lack of a chrome lined barrel, which people seem to place a great importance on when considering a firearm's survivability. While I will no doubt never shoot it enough to wear down the barrel that much, it seemed like something to keep in mind.

I do plan on purchasing a Marlin 336 at some later date, but for now my focus is on a low-priced-but-decent-quality semi-automatic rifle. Any links to a good fixed stock AK? Thanks for the advice.

DD214 · Jan 2, 2010

Welcome to MDShooters, and here is another option to consider if you aren't dead set on an AK.

http://cmmginc.secure-mall.com/shop/?cart=2105250&cat=161&

ImperatorZices · Jan 2, 2010

@DD214:
Hmmm...that seems like an idea.
Any word on how these builds turn out?
Just how ugly can these things get?
And do these cosmetic issues affect performance in any significant way? (apologies for all the questions

)
It is priced a little high for my budget, but if the quality is generally good enough I think I would be willing to put off mag and ammo purchases for a little while longer.

Markp · Jan 2, 2010

ImperatorZices said:
The VZ58 looks interesting, though I didn't consider it before due to its use of a proprietary mag. Still now that you mention it, it does seem like a viable alternative. Also, the non-regulated status would be a significant bonus, if only for a reduced transfer fee. Do you know of anywhere near the state border that sells said mags for a decent price, say in the Fairfax VA area?

I looked at the PSL for a bit, but then decided that I wanted something with a higher than 10 rd capacity. Though it still seems to be an attractive option, especially at that price. However, I assume it doesn't come with the scope and accessories as seen on other sites.

There are plenty of "Mailbox" places that you can use. Just contact one, and arrange for your mags to get shipped there. The mags are cheap, so that shouldn't be an issue.

Also, the fixed stock is available and takes only 1 screw to swap from the folding stock to the fixed stock, giving you maximum flexibility.

You could get one of those WASR single stacks, you can easily open the magwell to take 30 round clips. $299 is a really inexpensive AK package.

Mark

ImperatorZices · Jan 2, 2010

@Markp:
I've never heard of these "Mailbox" places. Are they some kind of PO boxes? And how much would it cost to arrange for such a shipment (say just one mag)?

Also, would changing from a folding to a fixed stock leave 2 open holes in the receiver (in the underfolder version)? Or were you referring to the VZ-58?

Thanks again!

Jimbob2.0 · Jan 2, 2010

ImperatorZices said:
@Biddtc:
Thanks. I was of the understanding that Yugos just had a thicker stamped receiver and a normal-yet-unchromed barrel?

@Jimbob2.0:
If you know of a similarly priced M70B1, you have my undivided attention. I too have had misgivings about the usability of such a stock, and it is one of the few reasons I am looking for an alternative. That and a lack of a chrome lined barrel, which people seem to place a great importance on when considering a firearm's survivability. While I will no doubt never shoot it enough to wear down the barrel that much, it seemed like something to keep in mind.

I do plan on purchasing a Marlin 336 at some later date, but for now my focus is on a low-priced-but-decent-quality semi-automatic rifle. Any links to a good fixed stock AK? Thanks for the advice.

Hey brother it definately isnt criticism, 10 years ago I was in your position only it was the assault weopons ban when everything was 10 times as expensive as it should be.

I would recomend looking at AIM, KVAR and others. I know KVAR has some Saiga (which is a good Russian made AK) conversions to high cap in fixed stock for a very good price. Otherwise Gunbroker is a source for some goodies. Dont neglect the opportunity to buy something off MD shooters, I noticed a very nice and cost effective MAK90 for sale, sure it isnt a pistol grip or folding stock but the thumbhole guns with a real milspec reciever are worth $450.

Leverguns bolt actions etc can be bought liberally at local sporting good shops

Best of luck!

ImperatorZices · Jan 2, 2010

@Jimbob2.0:
Sorry, I was genuinely curious. I didn't take it to be criticism.
I have been checking AIM and K-Var, and if the latter is able to keep the SGL-20s in stock, I may have to consider getting one of those instead.
Also, am I allowed to make purchases on the site yet with less than 50 posts, or is that just for selling?

Thanks again.

Bigdtc · Jan 2, 2010

FYI.. Look around for the 20 round Hungarian "tanker" mags for use until you are able to get some higher caps. They're around $15.00-$20.00, depending where you get them.
For range use, I prefer them to the 30's anyway as they are not as obtrusive as the longer mags from the bench. They have been 100% reliable for me and are very well built. No shipping to Md. woes to deal with either.

Centerfire has them...$16.99/ea http://www.centerfiresystems.com/MAGAKA07.aspx

ImperatorZices · Jan 2, 2010

Thanks for that bit of info. I actually ordered one from AIM in anticipation of the upcoming purchase, and it should arrive within a few days.
But I still want to hear about Markp's "mailbox" idea, if anyone has any other information on that matter. This would afford me a way to get VZ-58 mags or higher capacity AK mags should I need them.
As for bench shooting, what kind of accuracy would I expect from any of the above choices at 100 yds? I know the results won't be particularly stellar, but would an AK or one of its variants at least be able to hit a 6in target at that range?

Bigdtc · Jan 2, 2010

ImperatorZices said:
Thanks for that bit of info. I actually ordered one from AIM in anticipation of the upcoming purchase, and it should arrive within a few days.
But I still want to hear about Markp's "mailbox" idea, if anyone has any other information on that matter. This would afford me a way to get VZ-58 mags or higher capacity AK mags should I need them.
As for bench shooting, what kind of accuracy would I expect from any of the above choices at 100 yds? I know the results won't be particularly stellar, but would an AK or one of its variants at least be able to hit a 6in target at that range?

6" @ 100 yards???... My Yugo will, better on a good day

I think Markp is talking about a mailbox like at a UPS store. Rent it, ship there, un-rent it. However, by the time you add shipping, gas to get there and the cost of the "mailbox", You might be better off with the 20 rd mags till you can hit an out of state gun show. That is unless your buying a LOT of hi-caps.

ImperatorZices · Jan 2, 2010

Hahaha nice

. In that case, do you know of any near-the-VA/MD-border gun stores that might sell VZ or high cap AK mags?

Bigdtc · Jan 2, 2010

One of our industry partners is PDI (W. VA.), you can find thier info in the Industry partners forum.... VA. may be closer for you and a Google search might yield a place near you.

ImperatorZices · Jan 2, 2010

Wow. An hour and a half away. A little far for mags methinks. Unless...is anyone else going that way who wouldn't mind bringing a large hitchhiker along?

Markp · Jan 2, 2010

ImperatorZices said:
@Markp:
I've never heard of these "Mailbox" places. Are they some kind of PO boxes? And how much would it cost to arrange for such a shipment (say just one mag)?

Also, would changing from a folding to a fixed stock leave 2 open holes in the receiver (in the underfolder version)? Or were you referring to the VZ-58?

Thanks again!

I was referring to the VZ58, one screw switches from fixed stock to folding stock. It's a super nice gun actually. The only downside is the mags.

RE: Mailbox

USPS
1100 WYTHE ST,
ALEXANDRIA, VA 22314

Go there rent a PO Box for $36.00 for 6 months. Ship all your high caps there and take the metro blue line over there to pick them up. It's a 0.25 mile walk from the metro station to the post office.

So yes, you would be spending $36 for six months. If you plan on only buying 10 mags and it works out to less than $4. per mag plus a few the trips on the metro. Pick up all the mags you ever wanted, because now is the time to do it.

Simple.

Mark

rob-cubed · Jan 2, 2010

As other posters have suggested, a folding stock is rather useless unless you are jumping out of a plane... you'll probably be happier with fixed, and you can always slap an aftermarket folder on most AKs.

Chromed is always nice, especially if shooting corrosive ammo, but as long as you don't abuse the barrel it's not a deal-breaker.

An affordable place to start would be an SKS, or get a Saiga AK and convert it to pistol grip yourself. It's much easier than it sounds. Any Saiga-based rifle like Kvar or Arsenal offers is generally the best bang for your buck; they are built well and are more accurate than anything in their price range.

If you want to shoot cheap, consider a 5.45 AK. You will eventually spend WAY more on ammo than you will on the firearm itself. This round is the new standard for AKs, comparable to the 5.56 used in the AR, and half the price of 7.62.

Keep in mind you'll quickly want a more accurate gun if you buy cheap; get the best one you can afford, even if it means waiting another couple of months.

Soon to be gun owner needs advice and stuff

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