Point of Aim and Magazine Position

Doctor_M · Jun 23, 2020

I was shooting a new (to me) gun over Father's day weekend... second hand 9mm single stack, 1911 style, using factory ammunition. It was the first time I shot the pistol, so I was shooting a very easy 10 yards on a 6 inch steel plate (freshly painted so I could see what was happening).

First two are just a little high and left. I adjust my point of aim to the bottom right quarter of the plate. Shots 3, 4, 5 and 6 hit dead center in a nice tight group. Then the weirdness starts. Shots 7, 8, and 9 are now hitting low and to the right (off the plate and kicking up dirt).

OK... I figured, I'm pulling it somehow. I load a fresh mag and aim carefully at the bottom right quarter. Shots 1-6 are all hitting beautifully in the center of the plate. Shots 7, 8, and 9 go low right.

Magazine after magazine, I see the same exact results. As I start to adjust my aim to top left quarter of the plate on the last three shots of each magazine, I hit... but only on those numbered rounds.

I have 2 factory magazines for this handgun and both produce the same results. Shots 1-6 just a bit high left... shots 7-9 low right. I don't think I've ever had this happen before. Is it possible for a gun to shift point of aim based on the order of feeding?... or is it me? I'm willing to except that, but why just with this gun, and why so consistently in this pattern?

Would love to hear your thoughts.

Blaster229 · Jun 23, 2020

My thought? You hit the plate. The pistol is working.
Use a real paper bullseye target, shooting from a bench if you are thinking sight issues.

I've had target fmj go all over there place even at under 10 yards.
You keep mentioning mags like they might be a problem. Nope.

I always always always always tell people to load and shoot 1 round at a time, then take a look see.
Most people shoot too fast. They miss, get frustrated, and then just keep shooting shitty.

Pale Ryder · Jun 23, 2020

Your gun is just anticipating your target is falling so it’s adjusting it’s impact.

randyho · Jun 23, 2020

Does it do the same thing when you switch hands?

davsco · Jun 23, 2020

pretty much everything blaster said.

try to do a 2 stage trigger pull. take up the take up and then break the shot. there is nowhere enough recoil to hurt you so don't let it bother you or anticipate it. takeup, break, bang. do it with an empty gun and make sure the sights stay on target after you break the 'shot.'

magazines have nothing to do with it. the round you're firing is out of the mag and in the chamber.

HiStandards · Jun 23, 2020

Just to pile on: Focus on the front sight. Center of mass on the plate. Don't try to "chase" the impacts. Once you have consistent groups, think about adjusting sights, grip and stance. Dry-firing a few thousand times is boring as heck, but really helps.

kalister1 · Jun 23, 2020

HiStandards said:
Just to pile on: Focus on the front sight. Center of mass on the plate. Don't try to "chase" the impacts. Once you have consistent groups, think about adjusting sights, grip and stance. Dry-firing a few thousand times is boring as heck, but really helps.

Shot a USPSA match with a guy who was having the same issue, his rear sight was loose in the slide.

Blaster229 · Jun 23, 2020

randyho said:
Does it do the same thing when you switch hands?

He never shot off hand

Blaster229 · Jun 23, 2020

HiStandards said:
Just to pile on: Focus on the front sight. Center of mass on the plate. Don't try to "chase" the impacts. Once you have consistent groups, think about adjusting sights, grip and stance. Dry-firing a few thousand times is boring as heck, but really helps.

Chasing the impact is called , "shooting the group". When you shoot the group, you're doing whatever it takes to make the shots land there. Instead of aiming center bull and wondering why they aren't there.
Again... Loading and shooting 1 at a time slows you down.

Doctor_M · Jun 23, 2020

Good advice. Thanks guys. It was just so consistent with regards to rounds 7, 8, and 9 in the mag, I was willing to believe there might have been something mechanical at play. Will continue to work it and see if I can improve performance. I was using pretty cheap FMJ too... can try better ammo, one round at a time to see if I get some more consistency. Thanks all.

Doctor_M · Jun 23, 2020

Will check rear sight too. Just to be sure.

Pinecone · Jun 24, 2020

kalister1 said:
Shot a USPSA match with a guy who was having the same issue, his rear sight was loose in the slide.

I had that happen with a Para P14-45.

I was shooting a USPSA match and one stage, my shots were all over the place.

Before I holstered, I notice the rear sight was off to the side. It reached up, pushed towards the center, and it flew off the slide.

Para had cut the dovetail too deep, and used epoxy to make it fit.

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