Any 6.5 Grendel AR Platform Proponents or Detractors out there?

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  • lazarus

    Ultimate Member
    Jun 23, 2015
    13,673
    Another consideration is that Howa makes a 6.5 Grendel bolt gun. Sadly no mag compatibility with 6.5 Grendel AR mags. I like the idea of a bolt gun and a semi in the same caliber. The bit I've read on the Howa is with the right load it is sub MOA, 22 inch barrel. Build an AR in 6.5 Grendel with a 18" barrel in a lighter weight as a hunting rifle.
     

    dreadpirate

    Ultimate Member
    Mar 7, 2010
    5,521
    Cuba on the Chesapeake
    Another consideration is that Howa makes a 6.5 Grendel bolt gun. Sadly no mag compatibility with 6.5 Grendel AR mags. I like the idea of a bolt gun and a semi in the same caliber. The bit I've read on the Howa is with the right load it is sub MOA, 22 inch barrel. Build an AR in 6.5 Grendel with a 18" barrel in a lighter weight as a hunting rifle.

    Yes - and so does CZ :)

    I still am leaning towards an 18" 6.5 Grendel build
     

    Biggfoot44

    Ultimate Member
    Aug 2, 2009
    32,877
    If you *want* an 18in Grendel, by all means, get an 18in Grendel. It will meet your criteria. Debating the "best" ctg/ rifle to meet your criteria can continue indefinately w/o clear resolution.
     

    lazarus

    Ultimate Member
    Jun 23, 2015
    13,673
    If you *want* an 18in Grendel, by all means, get an 18in Grendel. It will meet your criteria. Debating the "best" ctg/ rifle to meet your criteria can continue indefinately w/o clear resolution.

    I don't understand your part "w/o clear resolution"

    There is always a clear resolution. It is when you get an AR in. 7", 8.5", 10.5", 12.5", 14.5", 16", 18", 20" and 24".
     

    Trumpet

    SCSC/NRA life member. MSI member
    Oct 29, 2005
    2,076
    Having much to do with the 6.5 Grendel I can say it's a pretty good round, BUT it's a tad too much for the AR 15 platform. The bolt had to be hogged out to accept the 7.62x39 size rim and this weakened it. Further more Bill Alexander used machined out 5.56 bolts and did so to hide the circumference groove on the face of almost all 5.56 bolt so nobody would know he done so. As you may know these bolts were made from 158 carpenters steel. Cutting that .011 recess in the bolt face further undermined the lugs and weakened them. In the beginning there were bolt failures. Then along comes the 9310 steel bolts and it seems to have alleviated the bolt failure. The next problem, one which has plagued the AR 15 wildcats from the beginning, is the magazine is too short for the longer heavier bullets by the limiting OAL. The 6.5 Grendel is a fairly straight bodied case. Everything has to be perfect for it to feed reliably. I honestly feel the Army rejected it because of the weaken bolt and the case being stubby and fairly straight which isn't conductive to a dirty environment which the Army often operates in. Even with all these short comings it's a fun little round and offers more then the 5.56, 6x45, 6.8, and 300 Black Out or Whisper. To get full potential out of it, as mentioned by the OP, you should go with the longer barrels. I had a 6.5 Grendel and had much fun with it. It's very accurate and flat shooting. The bottom line is you can have your cake and eat with with an AR 10 in 6.5 Creedmore. AR 10 have lost some weight now with improvement. My Grendel that I owned has a 22 inch heavy match barrel and the rig with scope and sling went a little over 11 pounds so you can see it's no lightweight in that configuration.


    You seem to have a "beef" with Bill Alexander. You say you've been with the Grendel since the beginning and you're dropping names. In this thread and the other one, you seem to clearly have a low opinion of him ("Arne Brennan is really the one that really got the Grendel going", "Arne...the true creator", and "that compound throat is no good").

    AA never hogged out 5.56 bolts, as they had already done the bolt geometry work from the .50 Beowulf. If they were just hogged out bolts, how did AA add the .010" of bolt tail length to the 5.56 bolts to compensate for firing pin protrusion?


    From another forum....

    AA specs out their own bolts from scratch, made to a very specific set of data ranging from alloy type, to dimensions, and 5.56 has nothing to do with it. AA went to a retired Colt engineer who worked on the 7.62x39 program back in the 1980s when doing research into making a cartridge work based on 7.62x39 case head dimensions, as well as the fatter body.

    The Army never rejected it because the Army never evaluated it, neither did the USMC. The USMC had plans to, but with the intent of invalidating it next to the 6.8, using 123gr Prvi Partisan ammo through 10.5" AA uppers, which AA refused to sell to them. They were going to bypass all the military protocols for man-firing.

    Man-firing protocols require test rig firing to x thousands of rounds across at least 10 different weapons, over a long period, before they even allow them into a soldier's hands in a test committee.

    If it's too much for the AR15 platform, then how are all these untold thousands of guns running and running, with SAAMI standardization of the ammo and chamber, with 42 factory loads, to include 4 new ones from Federal?
     

    starmetal

    Member
    Apr 5, 2017
    97
    You seem to have a "beef" with Bill Alexander. You say you've been with the Grendel since the beginning and you're dropping names. In this thread and the other one, you seem to clearly have a low opinion of him ("Arne Brennan is really the one that really got the Grendel going", "Arne...the true creator", and "that compound throat is no good").

    AA never hogged out 5.56 bolts, as they had already done the bolt geometry work from the .50 Beowulf. If they were just hogged out bolts, how did AA add the .010" of bolt tail length to the 5.56 bolts to compensate for firing pin protrusion?


    From another forum....

    AA specs out their own bolts from scratch, made to a very specific set of data ranging from alloy type, to dimensions, and 5.56 has nothing to do with it. AA went to a retired Colt engineer who worked on the 7.62x39 program back in the 1980s when doing research into making a cartridge work based on 7.62x39 case head dimensions, as well as the fatter body.

    The Army never rejected it because the Army never evaluated it, neither did the USMC. The USMC had plans to, but with the intent of invalidating it next to the 6.8, using 123gr Prvi Partisan ammo through 10.5" AA uppers, which AA refused to sell to them. They were going to bypass all the military protocols for man-firing.

    Man-firing protocols require test rig firing to x thousands of rounds across at least 10 different weapons, over a long period, before they even allow them into a soldier's hands in a test committee.

    If it's too much for the AR15 platform, then how are all these untold thousands of guns running and running, with SAAMI standardization of the ammo and chamber, with 42 factory loads, to include 4 new ones from Federal?

    Call John Fawcett at Lothar Walther in Atlanta, Ga, call Steve Hornady, call Dave Kiff at PGT, call Les Baer, call Steve Satern at Satern Barrels, and call Arne Brennan himself and ask them what they think about Bill Alexander. Lapua won't make him brass anymore. The man is a scoundrel and liar and apparently you have swallowed the Kool Ade about how he said things are done.

    Read the Wiki story on the 6.5 Grendel. It's fairly accurate except for the part about David Fortier. Dr. Palma, Arne, and Arne's one friend were shooting the 6.5 cartridge that spawned the 6.5 Grendel long before Bill ever though about a small bore cartridge. It was the Lapua engineer that tweated the case that Arne gave Bill to submit to Lapua to finalize it as it is today.



    Now with all that said the 6.5 Grendel is a really good cartridge for it's size, but it's a tad too much for the AR 15 bolt loaded to it's full potential, which can be achieved in a bolt action rifle. I had one and loved it and frankly quite sorry I sold it to a pig hunter in Texas.
     

    Trumpet

    SCSC/NRA life member. MSI member
    Oct 29, 2005
    2,076
    Call John Fawcett at Lothar Walther in Atlanta, Ga, call Steve Hornady, call Dave Kiff at PGT, call Les Baer, call Steve Satern at Satern Barrels, and call Arne Brennan himself and ask them what they think about Bill Alexander. Lapua won't make him brass anymore. The man is a scoundrel and liar and apparently you have swallowed the Kool Ade about how he said things are done.

    Read the Wiki story on the 6.5 Grendel. It's fairly accurate except for the part about David Fortier. Dr. Palma, Arne, and Arne's one friend were shooting the 6.5 cartridge that spawned the 6.5 Grendel long before Bill ever though about a small bore cartridge. It was the Lapua engineer that tweated the case that Arne gave Bill to submit to Lapua to finalize it as it is today.



    Now with all that said the 6.5 Grendel is a really good cartridge for it's size, but it's a tad too much for the AR 15 bolt loaded to it's full potential, which can be achieved in a bolt action rifle. I had one and loved it and frankly quite sorry I sold it to a pig hunter in Texas.

    OldJoe/Starmetal,
    Arne's cartridge "spawned" the Grendel, and as you said he designed "over 75%" of it (like to see the data). That doesn't mean he created it. You could just as easily say Arne didn't create it because it was "spawned" by the 6.5PPC, which was "spawned" by the .220 Russian, which was "spawned" by the Russians 7.62x39......but wait! They didn't do it either because ze Germans 7.92x33 "spawned" that...etc.

    You have no issue calling out Bill Alexander and now, David Fortier saying the wiki page is accurate "...except the part about David Fortier". So you cite a "resource", but only some of it is viable?

    In another thread you "call out" one of the most respected 'smiths on the site, essentially admitting you were trolling ("...I knew that this would raise hairs"), and then when called on it you still "test" him with more questions. Yet, when he asks you what your "creds" are, OH... that's a game for "ignoramuses". When you finally do apologize, you still manage to get your little passive insult in on "all of the amateur plug and play build your own AR guys that abound everywhere".

    If you're going to spout off on people and create an OSHA safety violation with all the names you drop, how about providing the rest of the forum some background info on you? Otherwise, you're just "Old Joe" who was banned from the 6.5Grendel forum.
     

    starmetal

    Member
    Apr 5, 2017
    97
    OldJoe/Starmetal,
    Arne's cartridge "spawned" the Grendel, and as you said he designed "over 75%" of it (like to see the data). That doesn't mean he created it. You could just as easily say Arne didn't create it because it was "spawned" by the 6.5PPC, which was "spawned" by the .220 Russian, which was "spawned" by the Russians 7.62x39......but wait! They didn't do it either because ze Germans 7.92x33 "spawned" that...etc.

    You have no issue calling out Bill Alexander and now, David Fortier saying the wiki page is accurate "...except the part about David Fortier". So you cite a "resource", but only some of it is viable?

    In another thread you "call out" one of the most respected 'smiths on the site, essentially admitting you were trolling ("...I knew that this would raise hairs"), and then when called on it you still "test" him with more questions. Yet, when he asks you what your "creds" are, OH... that's a game for "ignoramuses". When you finally do apologize, you still manage to get your little passive insult in on "all of the amateur plug and play build your own AR guys that abound everywhere".

    If you're going to spout off on people and create an OSHA safety violation with all the names you drop, how about providing the rest of the forum some background info on you? Otherwise, you're just "Old Joe" who was banned from the 6.5Grendel forum.

    Quite a few people were banned from the 6.5 forum So does that mean we don't have a chance to go to Heaven. Like that means anything to us. BTW I'm not calling out Bill. He doesn't run AA anymore, may not even have the title of "engineer" there.

    Here, email Bills old friend/partner back over in England Eran Bauer <bauer@civil-defence.org>, see what he has to say about good old Bill. But you won't troll because you don't have the balls!

    Finished here. I provided the OP with answers to his questions and he's made a decision. You sir, are looking for a fight. Adios troll. Oh forgot, you like blowing your own "Trumpet".
     

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