Tulsa Courthouse shooting - learn from this.

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  • ProShooter

    Ultimate Member
    Oct 8, 2008
    4,189
    Richmond, Va
    We are now a few days removed from one of the latest shootings - the Tulsa, Ok, courthouse shooting.

    From a training standpoint, we have an opportunity to learn something here from a photographer who was across the street snapping away with his camera. While these photos represent brief moments in time, we can learn alot from these....

    Photo 1 - Here's nutjob with his gun..
    slide_213159_764230_large.jpg


    So what do we have here? A right handed shooter with a 5-6 shot revolver in either .38spl, or .357 magnum.

    He's fired into the air and people have scattered, according to news reports. Tulsa Deputy Sheriff's respond from the courthouse.

    Photo 2 - engagement
    slide_213159_764234_large.jpg


    Shooter is facing away from the courthouse, and is being engaged by at least 2 Deputies.

    Deputy #1 is under the T in Tulsa. You can see his legs. He has a fairly clear shot at the dirtbag at roughly 15-20 yards. He is in a standing position, presumably with weapon drawn.

    Deputy #2 is under the TY in County. He is in a standing position, with his weapon drawn.

    Deputy #3 is under the T in County, strolling out the doors like she's going on a smoke break or something.

    The shooter is either ignoring them, or is oblivious to them.

    Photo 3
    slide_213159_764241_large.jpg


    Shitbag turns and fires from his 4:00 position, and strikes Deputy #2. Deputy #2 goes down on his knees.

    Photo 4
    tulsagunman4.jpg


    Deputy #1 and 3 are out of sight. Deputy #2 is shot and is down on the ground, almost to his stomach. and Deputy #4 emerges from the suspect's 5:00 position. He is firing while advancing. Suspect reacts to the shots and is possibly hit at this point. It appears that a bullet struck the black light pole just to the suspect's right, as evidenced by the smoke cloud caught by the camera.

    Photo 5
    slide_213159_764287_large.jpg

    Suspect is shot in the face/neck by Deputy, unknown direction. Gun is dropped.

    So what do we learn from this?

    COVER, COVER, COVER!!!!! Get your ass behind something and assume a tactical position.

    You have multiple deputies responding from different directions. Each appears to have an opportunity to engage the suspect while he is facing different directions. All of the deputies are standing in wide open positions, when there is ample cover just feet away. Deputy #2 could have easily taken cover behind one of those round cement benches and could have engaged the suspect from a closer range with a clear shot. At the very least, assume a kneeling position where you can get a more stable shot and make yourself a smaller target.

    Deputy #3 comes out of the doors, responding to the shooting and she is walking upright. Make yourself small. Be somewhere where the suspect doesnt expect you to be...DOWN!

    Now obviously, I'm Monday morning quarterbacking here. All I have to go by is the photos. I think its still pretty easy to see that certain tactical errors were made, which resulted in one deputy taking a hit.
     

    Blaster229

    God loves you, I don't.
    MDS Supporter
    Sep 14, 2010
    46,548
    Glen Burnie
    Well of course if you are going to stand there and try to talk the shooter down, then get to cover. Otherwise, If you are in the open, advance, get dynamic, close the gap and stop the threat, especially after he has already fired shots. The Deputies, except for #4, just seemed to think this was a another day on the job.
     

    -Z/28-

    I wanna go fast
    Dec 6, 2011
    10,658
    Harford Co
    I'm actually surprised the prick was able to quickly turn and hit the deputy from that position and distance with that little revolver. Of course I'm also surprised the Deputies only hit the prick once. Given how many deputies had a line of sight on him, I would have expected him to have multiple wounds.
     

    Kilroy

    Ultimate Member
    Jul 27, 2011
    3,069
    Hitting that deputy was a really lucky shot. Hope the deputy will be ok.
     

    ProShooter

    Ultimate Member
    Oct 8, 2008
    4,189
    Richmond, Va
    Hitting that deputy was a really lucky shot.

    Its not actually all that difficult, especially when the Deputy is standing there waiting to be shot. In some of the drills that we run students through in our Defensive Handgun I class, we shoot from 25 yards out.

    You'll probably never have to, but its nice to know that you can do it and you'll never know if you can if you don't try.
     

    QuebecoisWolf

    Ultimate Member
    May 14, 2008
    3,767
    Anne Arundel
    It's true. We do so much bullseye stuff that we forget that it's not really all that hard to hit a stationary, man-sized target with a pistol. That's why you don't want to be a stationary, man-sized target.
     

    ProShooter

    Ultimate Member
    Oct 8, 2008
    4,189
    Richmond, Va
    It's true. We do so much bullseye stuff that we forget that it's not really all that hard to hit a stationary, man-sized target with a pistol. That's why you don't want to be a stationary, man-sized target.

    Very, very true...

    That is why stepping offline, and cover/concealment are so critical.
     

    jr88

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Mar 7, 2011
    3,161
    Free?? State
    I am curious as to why in the first photo, the 2 officers didn't shoot the guy while his
    gun was down? He had already fired shots, and I'm sure by this time he had been verbally given the command to drop his weapon, so is it proper LE protocol to not take the shot and disable the threat?
     

    ProShooter

    Ultimate Member
    Oct 8, 2008
    4,189
    Richmond, Va
    I am curious as to why in the first photo, the 2 officers didn't shoot the guy while his
    gun was down? He had already fired shots, and I'm sure by this time he had been verbally given the command to drop his weapon, so is it proper LE protocol to not take the shot and disable the threat?

    Because as a LEO in this PC world, you almost have to be shot first in order to not be crucified in the court of public opinion for shooting first. The deputies showed great restraint in not firing immediately. It could have been a "suicide by cop" scenario.

    The best gunfight in the world is one that you do not have to be a part of, but one that you are prepared to win.
     

    iobidder

    1 point'er
    Nov 11, 2011
    3,279
    Everywhere
    Well of course if you are going to stand there and try to talk the shooter down, then get to cover. Otherwise, If you are in the open, advance, get dynamic, close the gap and stop the threat, especially after he has already fired shots. The Deputies, except for #4, just seemed to think this was a another day on the job.

    It is another day at the job alas it is the job. In fact I have to disagree with ProShooter, you are close engaging the subject with what appears to be fire suppression, hes already surrounded, and how do we know the Duputies on the other side aren't behind cover? I'd be willing to bet they are, and out of the line of friendly fire.
     

    ProShooter

    Ultimate Member
    Oct 8, 2008
    4,189
    Richmond, Va
    It is another day at the job alas it is the job. In fact I have to disagree with ProShooter, you are close engaging the subject with what appears to be fire suppression, hes already surrounded, and how do we know the Duputies on the other side aren't behind cover? I'd be willing to bet they are, and out of the line of friendly fire.

    Possibly...

    We don't know if the deputies on the other side are or are not behind cover. Hell, we don't even know if there are deputies on the other side. What we do know is that several deputies are standing up, in the open waiting to be shot....and one got his wish. That would have been prevented by assuming a cover position.

    Don't disagree with me just because I'm a Virginia driver....:lol:
     

    iobidder

    1 point'er
    Nov 11, 2011
    3,279
    Everywhere
    Possibly...

    We don't know if the deputies on the other side are or are not behind cover. Hell, we don't even know if there are deputies on the other side. What we do know is that several deputies are standing up, in the open waiting to be shot....and one got his wish. That would have been prevented by assuming a cover position.

    Don't disagree with me just because I'm a Virginia driver....:lol:

    The Deputy that got shot, it is all relative as to why he was in the open, but my cards say it was for the same reason the other Deputy was who shot the idiot.

    As far as the Virginia Drivers, you sir are guilty by association! :D
     

    Speaker2Wolves

    Banned
    BANNED!!!
    Feb 27, 2012
    322
    The best gunfight in the world is one that you do not have to be a part of, but one that you are prepared to win.

    Amen.

    As to the Deputy who got shot, I think he should have sought cover also. Unfortunately, even the best training can be overruled by a small gland over the kidney. The adrenal.

    There's another maxim I remember: There's nothing more exciting than being shot at. And missed.
     

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