AR pistol?

Warpspasm · Sep 16, 2012

I don't mean to take this thread in a different direction, but I'm in the process building an AR. My lower is complete, but I still need an upper. I was afraid to buy a complete upper with a shorty barrel like 11" or so, because I thought that would be considered a pistol. If you have a regular rifle stock, can the barrel be any length you want?

rwbow1969 · Sep 16, 2012

If your lower is complete and has a buffer tube with a stock on it then, no you can't put any upper with a overall barrel length shorter than a 16" on it without making it an SBR which makes it an NFA item. If your lower has a pistol buffer tube on it and no way of mounting a stock, then you can put a shorter barrel upper on it and have an AR pistol. I would make sure you use a dedicated PISTOL BUFFER TUBE if you do make it a pistol. Be sure not to put a forward grip on the pistol forearm as this will also make it an NFA item. There are a lot of rules and regs concerning these things.

Bwhite · Sep 16, 2012

No, barrel must be 16" minimum without paying tax stamp, doing paperwork and waiting

Warpspasm · Sep 16, 2012

That was pretty much how I understood it, but after reading this thread I thought perhaps I was incorrect.

JDH146 · Sep 16, 2012

ATF response letter Aug 2010

http://www.guntrustlawyer.com/ATF Response - AFG on AR Pistol.pdf

Sid. · Sep 16, 2012

JDH146 said:
ATF response letter Aug 2010

http://www.guntrustlawyer.com/ATF Response - AFG on AR Pistol.pdf

You can put an AFG on an AR pistol without making it NFA, but not a VFG?... What?...... :confused:

BenL · Sep 16, 2012

Sid. said:
You can put an AFG on an AR pistol without making it NFA, but not a VFG?... What?......

Yup. Weird, huh?

atblis · Sep 16, 2012

If your lower has a pistol buffer tube on it and no way of mounting a stock, then you can put a shorter barrel upper on it and have an AR pistol.

The ATF has repeatedly stated in letters that regular old buffer tubes are just fine.

http://www.jcweaponry.com/images/ar15/BB.JPG

Kingjamez · Sep 16, 2012

atblis said:
The ATF has repeatedly stated in letters that regular old buffer tubes are just fine.

http://www.jcweaponry.com/images/ar15/BB.JPG

*as long as you don't posses a stock that can fit on the regular buffer tube. Most of us do.

-Jim

atblis · Sep 16, 2012

As long as the stock has a legal useful purpose...you're okay. There's a few ways this works. You have AR rifles. You have the parts to convert the AR pistol in to a 16"+ barreled rifle. But yeah, don't have only an AR pistol with regular buffer tube and the stock in "close proximity".

tc617 · Sep 16, 2012

I have read here, on other forums, and in ATF letters that in reguards to AR or AK pistols, angled forward grips (AFG) are allowed, but vertical forward pistol grips are prohibited.

So let me ask this question, is the forward grip on an AMD-65 and AFG? I measured my AMD-65 front grip today and it is 66.67 degrees in relationship to te rifle bore.

e868ef0b4ec9d8399d2a5058fa6c4f86.image.456x275.jpg

erwos · Sep 16, 2012

No, it's a VFG. Academic anyways, since you can't make an AOW from a rifle.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk 2

tc617 · Sep 16, 2012

erwos said:
No, it's a VFG. Academic anyways, since you can't make an AOW from a rifle.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk 2

At what angle does a vertical forwad grip become an angled forward grip? Is it 10-degrees, 20, 45? Is it the shape/configuration of the grip?

So what if you were to take a virgin AK receiver, and AMD-65 parts kit, 12" US barrel and built an AMD-65 Pistol (no folding stock) using the factory forward grip - The weapon would look like the one below. Since this weapon was never a rifle, would it be a pistol with AFG, or an AOW?

rwbow1969 · Sep 16, 2012

JDH146 said:
ATF response letter Aug 2010

http://www.guntrustlawyer.com/ATF Response - AFG on AR Pistol.pdf

Didn't know that, I printed a copy of that for the just in case file.

Thanks for the info
Rob

ThawMyTongue · Sep 16, 2012

tc617 said:
At what angle does a vertical forwad grip become an angled forward grip? Is it 10-degrees, 20, 45? Is it the shape/configuration of the grip?

So what if you were to take a virgin AK receiver, and AMD-65 parts kit, 12" US barrel and built an AMD-65 Pistol (no folding stock) using the factory forward grip - The weapon would look like the one below. Since this weapon was never a rifle, would it be a pistol with AFG, or an AOW?

That firearm would be an AOW.

The ATF letter specifically addresses the Magpul AFG only.

Trumpet · Sep 19, 2012

So I have a few stripped lowers. I would realy like an AR pistol. So all I have to do is build it? No paperwork of "just in case" type letter I should have? Any legal eagle types here that can give a definitive answer?

BradMacc82 · Sep 19, 2012

Provided the lower has never been previously assembled as a rifle, your good to go.

The water's have been muddied some, so that's the short and sweet answer to your question.

04RWon · Sep 19, 2012

These laws are obviously written by someone who knows little to nothing about firearms. It pathetic lol

atblis · Sep 20, 2012

Provided the lower has never been previously assembled as a rifle, your good to go.

As long as it was first a pistol, you can convert back and forth between a pistol and rifle configuration. So here's how it works in my mind. Put your AR together, everything except for the butt-stock. Hold it up in the air and proclaim loudly for all the world to hear, "look at my AR15 pistol". Then put your buttstock on if you like (this assumes you have a 16"+ barrel). Now you can go back and forth between rifle and pistol (being careful about barrel length).

These laws are obviously written by someone who knows little to nothing about firearms. It pathetic lol

I am not so sure what it really is. On the surface it looks like incompetence, but I am beginning to think they know exactly what they're doing. Sure, part of it is intentionally having incompetent people in certain positions.

BenL · Sep 20, 2012

04RWon said:
These laws are obviously written by someone who knows little to nothing about firearms. It pathetic lol

I'd bet we are better off for this. Imagine if they actually had some firearms knowledge...

AR pistol?

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