Curio and Relic FAQ!! Read me first!!!

OnTarget · May 9, 2009

novus collectus said:
As I read it, if no aliens are listed in #9 on your form, then you have nothing to put down in #10.

Good question. I think you should put it on there if you maintain it as a secondary residence and that is where you have resided.

CLEO is confusing, but in MD people have been putting city or town CLEO, county police CLEO, county sherrif, and MDSP and yet no one has been told by the ATF they did it wrong.
Me, for the initial licese I notified the MDSP, and for my renewal I notified my city police chief. I have had no problems.
If you call the MDSP firearms/licensing section, they will tell you they are the CLEO and to send it to them, but they are not the ATF.

Yes.

It would not look strange to the ATF because residents of one state can get a license with an address for another state and it is legal as long as the collecting activities are done at the address on the license.
As for the CLEO.....who cares? THey are not supposed to take any action unless they know you are a prohibitted person and tell the ATF, other than that they are just being notified by you and do not have anything to do with the process as I understand it.

No notary needed.

****************************************************

Novus: As usual, your comments are appreciated and found to be very useful.

Two general comments: 1.) If I had my preference, I would send the CLEO form (Copy 2) to MSP. That way, one wouldn't have the local authorities saying, "What the heck is this?" and then taking an improper action for lack of understanding. 2) It would have been nice if the green form would have carbon copied everything onto the CLEO form , so one could mail a COPY to the CLEO rather than having to fill out the information all over again on CLEO (Copy2).Not the worse thing in the world, but it seems to me that the CLEO should receive an actual copy (so as to be identical to original).

Thanks again.

OnTarget · May 9, 2009

novus collectus said:
As I read it, if no aliens are listed in #9 on your form, then you have nothing to put down in #10.

Good question. I think you should put it on there if you maintain it as a secondary residence and that is where you have resided.

CLEO is confusing, but in MD people have been putting city or town CLEO, county police CLEO, county sherrif, and MDSP and yet no one has been told by the ATF they did it wrong.
Me, for the initial licese I notified the MDSP, and for my renewal I notified my city police chief. I have had no problems.
If you call the MDSP firearms/licensing section, they will tell you they are the CLEO and to send it to them, but they are not the ATF.

Yes.

It would not look strange to the ATF because residents of one state can get a license with an address for another state and it is legal as long as the collecting activities are done at the address on the license.
As for the CLEO.....who cares? THey are not supposed to take any action unless they know you are a prohibitted person and tell the ATF, other than that they are just being notified by you and do not have anything to do with the process as I understand it.

No notary needed.

*********************************************
NOVUS: One remaining question: On the last line (#15) of the C&R form, which is Certification, they want signature, title, and date. What does Title mean? Being retired, I'm not sure what they are asking for? What say you?
Thanks!

novus collectus · May 10, 2009

OnTarget said:
*********************************************
NOVUS: One remaining question: On the last line (#15) of the C&R form, which is Certification, they want signature, title, and date. What does Title mean? Being retired, I'm not sure what they are asking for? What say you?
Thanks!

Someone else asked this recently and the response is that "title" is for when the licensee is a corporation, museum or organization. The person who is the president of the organization for instance would put "president". YOu generally don't have to worry about the title part and you can leave it blank from what I gather. It has been a while, but I am sure I left mine blank.

Llyrin · May 10, 2009

I spoke with someone at ATF and she said title for us without a business or partnership, etc, would be "Collector."

novus collectus · May 10, 2009

Llyrin said:
I spoke with someone at ATF and she said title for us without a business or partnership, etc, would be "Collector."

Thanks for calling and thanks for the info, :thumbsup:

OnTarget · May 10, 2009

Llyrin said:
I spoke with someone at ATF and she said title for us without a business or partnership, etc, would be "Collector."

****************************************

I, too, appreciate this information that you passed along. I was able to incorporate it onto my form before sending it in.

Llyrin · May 10, 2009

Glad to help. I almost left it blank but was just not comfortable. The number on the instruction part of the form is a good one to call if you have any questions not answered here. That's the one I used.

coinboy · May 11, 2009

Here is the original email to the ATF about the CLEO and who they are.
http://www.mdshooters.com/showthread.php?t=3757&highlight=ATF+CLEO+local+police

From "Buonocore, Peter J." Block Sender | Block Domain
Date 2007/05/24 Thu PM 04:05:46 CDT
To coinboy
Subject RE:

The Chief Law Enforcement Officer (CLEO) would that of the local law
enforcement office. If you live within city limits and have a city
police department, the CLEO would be the head of that department. If
you live outside of the city limits, the CLEO would be the head of the
county police. If you have further questions, please do not hesitate to
contact us.

-----Original Message-----
From: coinboy
Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2007 9:48 PM
To: EPS Directorate
Subject:

Dear ATF,

I recently received the form F7CR (5310.16) - Application for License
(Collector of Curios and Relics) Under 18 U.S.C. Chapter 44, Firearms.
In filling out the paperwork to apply I see that I need the Chief Law
Enforcement Officer's information. I also know I have to send the
Officer a copy of my form. I need to know what Chief Law Enforcement
Officer you would like me to send the form to.
Here in Maryland I have both State and County police departments, so do
I send the form to my County or State Police department. The State
Police do handle handgun and NFA weapon purchases. They do not execute
any purchases of rifle or shotguns. I have looked all over your website
for the answer to this question. The only option I have is to e-mail you
this question to finish my paperwork. I thank you for taking the time to
read and answer my question.
Thanks again,
coinboy

240 towles · Jun 6, 2009

just got back from the sheriffs dept and the MSP. Sheriff didn't know what to do with the forms, and the MSP didn't either. MSP said that the CLEO of the county is the local DA. Is this true, or should I go tell the sheriff that he is the CLEO in terms of a C+R?

coinboy · Jun 6, 2009

240 towles said:
just got back from the sheriffs dept and the MSP. Sheriff didn't know what to do with the forms, and the MSP didn't either. MSP said that the CLEO of the county is the local DA. Is this true, or should I go tell the sheriff that he is the CLEO in terms of a C+R?

Call your local police department and ask who the Chief Law Enforcement Officer is. If no one knows who the CLEO is, try and ask for the person in charge of the entire department. They should be able to tell you who the CLEO is, if it isn't them. It is not your job to tell them what to do with the form, it is just your job to provide it to them. What they decide to do with it is up to them. (That includes throwing it in the trash can.) I would recommend you mail it (with a return receipt) to the CLEO after you have verified who the CLEO is. This is because you have proof that they received it. If you hand deliver it, you don't have any receipt. I would say a DA is most likely not the CLEO.

240 towles · Jun 6, 2009

the most local police dept is princess anne, but they don't have jurisdiction in deal island. As I understand it, we fall under somerset county sheriffs dept and the MSP

coinboy · Jun 6, 2009

240 towles said:
the most local police dept is princess anne, but they don't have jurisdiction in deal island. As I understand it, we fall under somerset county sheriffs dept and the MSP

If you call 911, who comes to solve the crime a half an hour later? That is who your department is.

novus collectus · Jun 7, 2009

coinboy said:
Call your local police department and ask who the Chief Law Enforcement Officer is. If no one knows who the CLEO is, try and ask for the person in charge of the entire department. They should be able to tell you who the CLEO is, if it isn't them. It is not your job to tell them what to do with the form, it is just your job to provide it to them. What they decide to do with it is up to them. (That includes throwing it in the trash can.) I would recommend you mail it (with a return receipt) to the CLEO after you have verified who the CLEO is. This is because you have proof that they received it. If you hand deliver it, you don't have any receipt. I would say a DA is most likely not the CLEO.

I do not suggest this for the initial application, but for my renewal form I sent an electronic copy to my most local LEO (IIRC the renewal only has one form and you have to make your own copy, but my memory may be faulty). I figure that if there is any doubt that the electronic record of the email will exonerate me.

novus collectus · Jun 7, 2009

240 towles said:
just got back from the sheriffs dept and the MSP. Sheriff didn't know what to do with the forms, and the MSP didn't either. MSP said that the CLEO of the county is the local DA. Is this true, or should I go tell the sheriff that he is the CLEO in terms of a C+R?

I am not versed in NFA applications, but I think that there is a definition of a CLEO for "class 3" tax stamps that includes judges, DAs, etc., but it is an unknown to us yet if this is the same for the C&R or dealer FFL CLEO notification.

Markp · Jun 7, 2009

novus collectus said:
I am not versed in NFA applications, but I think that there is a definition of a CLEO for "class 3" tax stamps that includes judges, DAs, etc., but it is an unknown to us yet if this is the same for the C&R or dealer FFL CLEO notification.

A trust is the way to go for a NFA weapon. No fingerprints, CLEO signature, etc, it's much easier than going through all the other BS.

Mark

240 towles · Jun 9, 2009

went to PA police dept, explained that the sheriffs didn't want the form, the MSP didn't know what to do with it, and ATF says it needs to go to a CLEO. She asked if it needed signing and I said no. I did tell them that the copy was for them to keep for thier records. One officer outside filled in the chiefs info on the ATF copy, but Before I could finish filling in the CLEO info on the CLEO copy, the female officer said she would fill out the rest and took it. I guess this constitutes giving a copy to the CLEO right? I frankly don't care if they file it in the shredder as long as it doesn't interfere with my C+R. And how come in three diffrent police depts, I couldn't find one officer who knew what a a C+R is?

coinboy · Jun 9, 2009

240 towles said:
went to PA police dept, explained that the sheriffs didn't want the form, the MSP didn't know what to do with it, and ATF says it needs to go to a CLEO. She asked if it needed signing and I said no. I did tell them that the copy was for them to keep for thier records. One officer outside filled in the chiefs info on the ATF copy, but Before I could finish filling in the CLEO info on the CLEO copy, the female officer said she would fill out the rest and took it. I guess this constitutes giving a copy to the CLEO right? I frankly don't care if they file it in the shredder as long as it doesn't interfere with my C+R. And how come in three diffrent police depts, I couldn't find one officer who knew what a a C+R is?

No idea. It's not something that they deal with everyday. Frankly, I think most deparments could give a rats ass about it. They are probably worried it is more work. Then once they find out there is no work on their part, probably just throw it away. As long as you supplied the form to them and have the info on the ATF copy, send it away and wait for your new license. Better start saving now because you are gonna be broke!

Markp · Jun 11, 2009

240 towles said:
went to PA police dept, explained that the sheriffs didn't want the form, the MSP didn't know what to do with it, and ATF says it needs to go to a CLEO. She asked if it needed signing and I said no. I did tell them that the copy was for them to keep for thier records. One officer outside filled in the chiefs info on the ATF copy, but Before I could finish filling in the CLEO info on the CLEO copy, the female officer said she would fill out the rest and took it. I guess this constitutes giving a copy to the CLEO right? I frankly don't care if they file it in the shredder as long as it doesn't interfere with my C+R. And how come in three diffrent police depts, I couldn't find one officer who knew what a a C+R is?

They got a copy, and you delivered it, that's all that matters.

Mark

ThumperIII · Jun 16, 2009

Not to make light of a serious thread, but

CLEO vs 911 responder: Seems to be dependent on the weather, if it's a busy or slow crime day, and (sorry if it is sexist-but it's true) whether the call involves mention of a naked woman. Could be MSP, county (both Police and Sherriff Depts), or two or more towns that I am NOT a resident in. Last reported accident with injury: one MSP at an hour & 45 min after ambulance cleared scene. Or accident involving elementary student loaded school bus, nobody, ever. Exception, naked woman -- all the above, within minutes.

Sending C&R notification: The townie will think it makes him important and will tell everyone you have a big gun collection. The MSP may start a new file just for you. The county is overworked and don't care (probably loose it). Guess I'll send to county with a note for my records of date and the TO address sent.

boomboom929 · Jun 17, 2009

Ordered C&R forms over the phone this morning and they are sending me several. Ironically, I came home from work an in my mailbox was my Collector's status approved. Only took 5 months almost to the day.

Curio and Relic FAQ!! Read me first!!!

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