Need help with a trespassing situation

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  • omegared24

    Ultimate Member
    Dec 23, 2011
    4,747
    Ijamsville, MD
    You guys think you have it bad. I've got an old lady that lives behind me that keeps dumping her yard waste in my yard. I finally got a video of her doing it and told her I was going to call the police/county and show them the video.

    As of last night she was doing a decent job of cleaning up the mess.
     
    Last edited:

    Blacksmith101

    Grumpy Old Man
    Jun 22, 2012
    22,155
    I live right in from 32. I get people pulling in to my driveway constantly to turn around (the neighbor who goes right off it doesn’t get many). Also a lot of people like to pull in to my grass and sit. Either looking for directions, maybe waiting for someone, what have you. Occasionally people will park there and take dogs for walks, just going for a bike ride, whatever (our road is relatively slow and about 2-3 miles long. It eventually runs by the potapsco).

    Other than blocking the grass with rocks, nothing is going to stop people for me. I’ve tried signs and just gave up. Occasionally with the walkers I will leave notes for them. 50/50 on it I see their car again.

    I did have one guy block me in my drive way when I was trying to leave. He started yelling at me that he was just looking up directions when I politely (but obviously looked upset) that he was trespassing and blocking me from pulling out of my driveway. He did leave quickly when I pulled out my cell phone and informed him I was calling police after I took a picture of him and his license plate.

    The police basically told me their hands were tied unless they catch him trespassing. Me reporting it wouldn’t do anything.

    I’ve reported construction vehicles parked on my grass doing driveways repairs in the area blocking part of the road.

    Police came by that time...and didn’t even talk to them. I called them again and was told, “well they aren’t blocking the entire road” but they are parked on my grass too “well, the officer who came by said it was barely on the grass and they can use the easement”

    NO THEY CANNOT!!! They aren’t the utility company!!!

    So HoCo police both don’t know the law and also refused to do anything. What chafes me is that awhile back (before that call and incident) HoCo police told BGE who were rerunning a powerline for me on my property at my request that they couldn’t park on the road because it was blocking traffic. Even though again they were half on my grass and cars could still get by!

    I kind of hate this place a bit

    Have you tried a sign that says "Parking $10 An Hour or any part there of."
     

    Mightydog

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Or again, another new sign at the entrance to the road.
     

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    lowoncash

    Baned
    Jan 4, 2010
    3,447
    Calvert county
    I agree with this. If these people really aren't causing the OP any harm, just let it be.

    The harm is by allowing use of your property to continue you are basically giving property away. This can be problematic and expensive if the property is sold.
    There is also risk involved. While trespassers are using the shortcut it’s “their right of way”. If they slip and fall on ice or trip on a rock it becomes your liability.

    I live right in from 32. I get people pulling in to my driveway constantly to turn around.

    Other than blocking the grass with rocks, nothing is going to stop people for me. I’ve tried signs and just gave up.

    Best solution I’ve seen is a 2x4 with holes drilled and straight pieces of round rubber pulled through to look like nails. Looks like a spike strip across the driveway unless you get really close to it. It’s a simple drive over a board for the homeowner.

    There are nice chain "gates" which lower with a remote control, you drive over the chain, and then come back up when needed. Could be a solution.

    With a gate or chain you also block emergency services, meter readers, delivery people, post office, friends, relatives and publishers clearing house prize patrol.
    Blocking some of the above may be a good thing.
     

    slsc98

    Ultimate Member
    May 24, 2012
    6,746
    Escaped MD-stan to WNC Smokies
    Best solution I’ve seen is a 2x4 with holes drilled and straight pieces of round rubber pulled through to look like nails. Looks like a spike strip across the driveway unless you get really close to it. It’s a simple drive over a board for the homeowner.

    Dayum. File to Memory!!!!!!! :D


    OP, we totally sympathize with your situation. (My mind keeps coming back to 28Shooters experience(s) ...)
     

    cantstop

    Pentultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Aug 10, 2012
    8,158
    MD
    Google maps may be sending folks down your "private drive". If it is indeed a private drive you can contact Google and they will mark it private and stop using it in their directions. A little on how to do that later.

    Fab's is right in that you need to tread lightly unless you have proof in the way of public documents on who owns the private road. It would be up to the owner of the drive to actually enforce any attempt to block passage.

    To have google stop sending folks through this driveway:
    Google a house number on the street on one side of the private drive
    In the results, click on Maps
    In the Maps, click on Directions
    Add the address of a house on the other side of the private drive
    If the directions aren't through your private drive then google is treating it as a private drive and you're done
    Otherwise, In the upper left corner of Maps click on the Menu Icon (3 horizontal lines)
    From the Menu, click Send Feedback (you need to be logged into Google to do this)
    Tell Google to stop sending folks down your private drive.
    -> Google will investigate it and if indeed it is a private road they will email you when the Map Directions are updated to remove your drive from further Map directions.
     

    Ammo Jon

    Ultimate Member
    Mar 3, 2008
    20,781
    Just to clarify it seems that people are walking not driving. Fake spike strips, etc won’t help. Only solution I see is extending the fence and blocking off access to the hill to the grocery store.
     

    lemmdus

    Active Member
    Feb 24, 2015
    380
    Hello fellow Marylanders,

    I have an issue with trespassing which I hope you can weigh in on. There is a private road that connects Uniontown Rd in Westminster to several houses. The houses are well away from the road. Unfortunately, many local residents also use this as a short-cut between Uniontown Rd and the Safeway in College Square.

    I have No Trepassing signs that are summarily ignored constantly. When confronted I get all manner of hostility, from verbal to physical assault. The Westminster police have been called several times and are aware of the issue.

    I describe the situation in this video (which was made for a specific pipe-smoking audience on Youtube). Within I show the layout of the road and describe the problem:
    https://youtu.be/WLrB1-MJSLU?t=294

    While doing research online I came upon an opinion piece in the Carroll County Times called
    Legal Matters: Signs, verbal warnings sufficient notice to trespassers
    https://www.carrollcountytimes.com/lifestyle/ph-cc-legal-matters-072316-20170717-story.html

    I wrote an email to Ms. Donna Engle, the author and a lawyer, asking what I could do. In it I repeat what I wrote above, and ask:

    The police, city hall, and the Dept of Planning and Taxation all state that this is a private road. How can I stop these people from trespassing? By the time police arrive trespassers are long gone. Can I physically PREVENT people from walking on this road, forcing them to turn around?


    Her response:

    Hi, Mr. Mittelstedt,
    The road is posted as private,so your trespassers could not argue that they had no idea they were trespassing. Trespass is a criminal offense, so calling the police is a logical step. If no other landowner has use of the road under your permission, and you own the road, you may have the right to block the road just as you can fence your yard or garden--unless it has been used by the public for more than 20 years, in which case it may have become a public right-of-way. If you could obtain names, it could be helpful for you to contact the police to find the individuals and explain to them that a witness (you) reports they are committing a misdemeanor and could wind up in criminal court for their actions.
    Hope that helps
    Donna Engle


    Not a ton of help.

    Yesterday was the final straw for me. I witnessed a male and female walking on my private road, and then hiding behind the garage of an elderly neighbor. They were going through their backpacks and exchanging items. I went out to confront them and they ran. Alarm bells were going off in my head so I got in my car and pursued them to the WV trailhead which was several hundred yards down Uniontown Rd. I wanted a picture of them so I could report them if needed.

    When I confronted them, the male pulled a knife on me and put it into my face. When I didn't back down they ran again down the trail. I called the police and stayed on the phone with 911 following them until police apprehended them and they were arrested. It turns out that they had also shoplifted at Safeway so police were already looking for them.

    So with hat in hand I come to you knowledgeable people with the following questions:

    How far can I go to push people off my property? Can I literally block the road and not allow them to go any further, demanding they turn around?

    Can I open carry on this private road that is my property in the city of Westminster?

    If I am again faced with a knife in my face am I allowed to defend myself? Or based on the Castle Doctine am I required to retreat to my house?

    Any opinions would be greatly appreciated!

    I know right where you are and I saw all the police cars last week. As for your driveway, for a long time people have used that path to go between Uniontown RD and the developments to College Square. Many people used it I used to use it as well. However recently they built a path at the bottom of the hill that we now use. I don't think most people realize that was a private drive way. You could put up a gate and electric opener if you wanted that would block the path. I have witnesses kids on that path not too long ago throwing rocks at cars. I did call the Westminster PD.

    Westminster is a pretty safe place however, there is an element off PA Ave that is into heroin, badly. As for carrying on your property, yes you can, anyway you want. Just remember though, if you want to confront someone on your property that is fine, if you leave that property and you still have that gun you could be in for a rough ride. Most people in Westminster, a jury might look the other way on that one, but I wouldn't take that chance. Secondly, I know we live in Carroll County Westminster, but we are in MD. We do not have SYG here. If you are outside and break leather you are probably going to get arrested.
     

    clint west

    Member
    Aug 29, 2015
    44
    maryland
    Here's my experience on chronic tresspassers for what its worth.
    I live back in the woods about 700 feet off a county road. People used to often drive or walk down my driveway to " just look around", " just seeing whats back here" etc. In addition to the usual urination/ defecation. Occasional dumping. Once I came out of the shower to see a guy in my backyard looking in my window. My opening line was usually, "how many no tresspassing signs did you just walk/drive past?"

    No Trespassing signs only deter honest people. The only person that was deterred by my signs was a DNR officer in search of poachers. Everyone else always has an excuse why the signs don't apply to them. They start with , " yeah, but....."

    Probably only a matter of time until a landowner is sued by a trespasser who trips and falls down. State of maryland could probably charge you for failure to shovel the snow for the trespassers safety

    Good ideas - Know and fully understand your property boundaries and exactly your rights to any easement. Use lots of well camouflaged or inacessible cameras ( they get stolen) Motion sensor alarms if needed. Try to know the angle of view of your cameras. That way when a tresspasser takes a swing at you, you're sure to have it on video Block the access one day per year to avoid adverse posession type issues. Physical barriers to prevent trespass if possible. ( fix any broken fencing) Plant trees or natural barries to make access appear difficult
    When confronting, play dumb and nice. Angry confrontations bring nighttime vandalism, theft, police put you on the kook list. Works against you if in the future you end up in a self defense situation. A better approach is " hi, sorry but I have already called the police. Our neighborhood association has a rule that we call 911 on tresspassers etc" .... You know, its not me... its just the rules etc.. .. "we don't know if you all are criminals or not so the police say we have to call 911 on you"............. Thus avoid anyone remembering you as the bad guy

    bad ideas - open carry on your property expecting a confrontation. It only invites much more trouble. You will be the bad guy. Maybe you end up the victim of a swat raid. The Maryland State System is against you and has a woody to find some reason to prosecute you. Local news will villify you. tresspassers will exploit the Maryland State politics to their advantage. They are skilled and using The System to play the victim. ( I caught tresspassers in my woods at night - they called police on ME to get the attention off them)
    If in the future you do have to defend yourself, you don't want the liberal gun hating jurors to remember you as the angry guy who "yelled at people to get off the lawn. "
    I'm of the persuasion that a firearm is not used as a threat or a deterrent. Its an absolute last resort. So concealed carry on my property would be my preference. At least in Maryland
     

    BugLaden

    Member
    Mar 8, 2016
    27
    Littlestown, PA
    I want to thank each and every one of you who have replied and weighed in on this subject. You have given me some logical (and some not so logical) solutions, and have given solid advice.
     

    lemmdus

    Active Member
    Feb 24, 2015
    380
    One more thing I would like to add; put up a high privacy file fence just on the part of your property that meets the property next to yours that people pass through. I wont name the property because of privacy but it belongs to a business. If you put that high fence right there and run it far enough so people can't get around it and post no trespassing sings on both sides people wont be able to get through and will have to turn around.

    Good luck.
     

    j_h_smith

    Ultimate Member
    Jul 28, 2007
    28,516
    I would suggest contacting your local PD and asking to talk to a community liaison if they have one. If not, ask to speak to the commanding officer and then request a meeting. But before that, I think you need to determine who actually owns the property. From the limited information you've supplied, it doesn't appear to actually be owned by you.

    It may be a Right of Way that was deeded to you when you bought your house. You need to determine what rights you have to this property. It's a little fuzzy with your explanation, so I'd want to know who "legally" has rights to this property.

    As far as how to defend yourself, that too will depend on the ownership of said property. But once you travel off of your property, you will have opened up a completely different can of worms.

    I recommend anyone in your situation to at the very least read the book titled, The Law Of Self Defense by Andrew Branca. I would say that when you left your property and confronted that person, you are then considered the aggressor. Regardless, if you brandish a firearm, you are now in unchartered territory. My guess would be that you will at the very least be detained if not charged.

    Is the juice worth the squeeze to even think about pulling a firearm to prevent a trespasser from property that may or may not be owned by you?

    My suggestion would be to find a lawyer who is on official/unofficial retainer.

    Also, getting legal advice on the internet is worth exactly what you paid for it. Nothing I've said is to be considered legal advice and I cannot be held responsible for thi or any other opinion.

    I wish you luck, but you're asking the wrong group of people for legal advice.
     

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