Can my wife take one of my guns to the range without me been present?

daggo66 · Jan 10, 2017

thomfantomas said:
i think you must be present for legality purposes but i could be wrong? mdshooters lawyers shall elaborate the dos and donts very shortly!

If you have no f@%king clue, why chime in? :mad54:

daggo66 · Jan 10, 2017

Art3 said:
This is kinda where I was hoping to hijack this thread too...but to steer clear of any, "what really makes it an HBar" debate, how about an M1A, with a couple 20 rnd mags? The not otherwise prohibited borrower takes them to the range, then returns them to the legally registered owner. (Obviously we are assuming the borrower doesn't rob any banks along the way). No harm, no jail?

And...to avoid the "it's not illegal cuz you didn't get caught argument," let's say that the borrower is involved in a car accident that incapacitates their car...so now the police definitely know there is a SCAW and hicap deathmags in the mix...still ok?

If my aunt had a d!@k she's be my uncle. Just because you make up some whacky scenario doesn't change the facts.

Mr H · Jan 10, 2017

44 posts, and folks still can't take "yes" for an answer!!

:lol2:

daggo66 · Jan 10, 2017

Mr H said:
44 posts, and folks still can't take "yes" for an answer!!

Makes me nuts. Especially people who answer while admitting they don't really know the answer.

chilipeppermaniac · Jan 10, 2017

Look at

shawn3486 said:
Agreed! This is why I hate it even more when Gun Shops will not let you look at a firearm unless you have your HQL on you because they are "transferring" it!

A friend in NY is telling me all the crap he must go thru to get his permit to purchase a CZ he wants.

He tells me in NY, a gun shop cannot "show you" or let you "handle" a handgun in their shop unless you have your permit. He says they even have undercover narcs to bust dealers they catch letting someone "look at" guns without checking for the permit.

chilipeppermaniac · Jan 10, 2017

Also, daggo, no need get so worked up about someone responding with some comments if they are not specifically answering the question. This is a forum to enjoy freedoms to own guns and also to speak when the notion fancies a message even if it does not complete the question/answer circuit.
Suppose someone is new to the forum and did not know we have lawyer types who generally can translate lawyer speak? A statement like "before long our lawyer types will be along to clarify..."

In posting a general message like the ""lawyer" will eventually show up to put the do's and don'ts into language that Joe public can understand the legal answer of what the law says, then it answers a different but related question.

No need reply to defend one's impatience,,,I am not aiming my message specifically at you daggo, but in a general suggestion. I have posted my .02, no worries.

Art3 · Jan 10, 2017

daggo66 said:
If my aunt had a d!@k she's be my uncle. Just because you make up some whacky scenario doesn't change the facts.

Soo...maybe your auncle can explain those facts to us? :shrug:

campns · Jan 10, 2017

chilipeppermaniac said:
A friend in NY is telling me all the crap he must go thru to get his permit to purchase a CZ he wants.

He tells me in NY, a gun shop cannot "show you" or let you "handle" a handgun in their shop unless you have your permit. He says they even have undercover narcs to bust dealers they catch letting someone "look at" guns without checking for the permit.

that's bogus, I was in Upstate after their SAFE act went into a shop and was able to fondle anything I wanted. now they had a great sale on ammo and wouldn't sell it to me as I didn't have my permit which greatly appreciate that at least I don't live in NY anymore.

Doco Overboard · Jan 10, 2017

daggo66 said:
Makes me nuts. Especially people who answer while admitting they don't really know the answer.

I answered because the man had a question and I was interested in what others had to say. I know nothing of HQL's rentals 77r's and could care less, but if the old lady wants to roll down the road to shoot something that's up to her because that's how we are. I'm pretty sure we do not have to ask or need someones permission for what we do, but suggesting to someone else what to do with that is not entirely my decision. Thoughtfully, someone has provided an example for clarity and thank you for providing that example. I'm sure the OP will use their best discretion during the decision making process for what suits themselves best as well.

Blacksmith101 · Jan 10, 2017

I made certain my wife owned some regulated firearms in her own name before Oct 2013 just so she would be covered if she ever needed the grandfathering. Cheap Insurance!

Mr H · Jan 10, 2017

Blacksmith101 said:
I made certain my wife owned some regulated firearms in her own name before Oct 2013 just so she would be covered if she ever needed the grandfathering. Cheap Insurance!

Same here...

She has a couple handguns of her own, plus a couple she purloined from me (one of which I needed to go out and replace)

She's never bought any long guns of her own, though we have several that we consider hers.

good guy 176 · Jan 10, 2017

Not a good idea to let a newbie take a pistol to the range alone. The concern, of course, is for your wife's safety and those around her. I certainly encourage women participating in the shooting sports; just make sure she is completely familiar with whatever she'll be shooting and that she gets the appropriate training before heading out.

Rule of thumb...expect the unexpected when introducing folks to handling a firearm. I haven't seen em all, but I've seen my share of safety violations in 64 years in the sport.

I've conducted rifle and pistol training, operated ranges while on active duty and as a civilian and have competed since 1952. Fortunately, I've never seen anyone get hurt, maimed or killed.

You might want to enroll your wife in a Women on Target introductory course. We conduct basic courses for pistol, rifle and shotgu at the AGC ranges. Also, a basic Hunter Safety Course is a good one for anyone new to the sport.

Safety is Job #1.

Lew--Ranger63

esqappellate · Jan 10, 2017

basscat said:
Yes she can. She is just borrowing it. No law against it.

It depends on what "receive" means in 5-117.1 of the Public Safety Article. Under 5-117.1, no one may "purchase, rent, or receive a handgun" without an HQL. That said, the AG's office has informally advised a GA delegate that this sort of receipt would probably be ok (assuming your wife is over 21). See attached. Of course, that advice doesn't bind the State's Attorney or the courts or even the AG's office. What the OP is doing is creating a potential fact question over whether it was temporarily borrowed or actually permanently transferred. Proceed at your own risk bearing in mind that not all LEOs and not all MD jurisdictions (Baltimore, Montgomery and PG counties, to name a few) are the slightest bit reasonable when it comes to guns. The penalties (5 years in jail for both the transferor and the transferee) are rather severe.

Art3 · Jan 10, 2017

thomfantomas said:
i think you must be present for legality purposes but i could be wrong? mdshooters lawyers shall elaborate the dos and donts very shortly!

daggo66 said:
If you have no f@%king clue, why chime in?

Doco Overboard said:
I answered because the man had a question and I was interested in what others had to say. I know nothing of HQL's rentals 77r's and could care less, but if the old lady wants to roll down the road to shoot something that's up to her because that's how we are. I'm pretty sure we do not have to ask or need someones permission for what we do, but suggesting to someone else what to do with that is not entirely my decision. Thoughtfully, someone has provided an example for clarity and thank you for providing that example. I'm sure the OP will use their best discretion during the decision making process for what suits themselves best as well.

I wholeheartedly support the, "I don't know, but I'm interested" post. Sure, it may not answer anything, but it shows the OP support and that their question isn't crazy. It also bumps the thread and engages in conversation. This is, after all a social media community. It's not supposed to be a question-in, answer-out machine (although...admittedly that could be helpful sometimes :rolleyes:

). It wouldn't be much fun if only 100% pertinent and accurate posts were allowed...

Art3 · Jan 10, 2017

esqappellate said:
It depends on what "receive" means in 5-117.1 of the Public Safety Article. Under 5-117.1, no one may "purchase, rent, or receive a handgun" without an HQL. That said, the AG's office has informally advised a GA delegate that this sort of receipt would probably be ok (assuming your wife is over 21). See attached. Of course, that advice doesn't bind the State's Attorney or the courts or even the AG's office. What the OP is doing is creating a potential fact question over whether it was temporarily borrowed or actually permanently transferred. Proceed at your own risk bearing in mind that not all LEOs and not all MD jurisdictions (Baltimore, Montgomery and PG counties, to name a few) are the slightest bit reasonable when it comes to guns. The penalties (5 years in jail for both the transferor and the transferee) are rather severe.

Also, I thought there was another thread recently in which the definition (or lack there of) of the word "possess" was debated. I can't remember which thread it was, or what final verdict (if any) was reached.

It's all clear as mud, until we get a test case (and I surely ain'ta volunteerin'! :sad20:

)

lkrose78 · Jan 10, 2017

jonnyl said:
I don't think so. HQL has nothing to do with possession or transport. For example, if you owned a handgun prior to this disaster of a law, you don't need to get an HQL to transport it. As stated above, it's required for purchase.

There is some language in the law around "possession" of banned long guns that might be more of a gray area.

Thanks, I do learn lots of new info every day!

chilipeppermaniac · Jan 11, 2017

campns said:
that's bogus, I was in Upstate after their SAFE act went into a shop and was able to fondle anything I wanted. now they had a great sale on ammo and wouldn't sell it to me as I didn't have my permit which greatly appreciate that at least I don't live in NY anymore.

Upstate may be way different than NYCity.

My friend who is an attorney in his 40's had a summons for an open container from when he was 17, (thrown out in court) and a traffic citation maybe 5 years ago. NY has nitpicked and required paperwork, affidavits, his 1st born kid etc for his permit to be legal to buy a handgun and take it from home to range.

He confirmed that while purchasing a Mossberg 500 today, he was not allowed to handle any handguns, just long guns.

Pinecone · Jan 11, 2017

Integrity said:
I would imagine gun shops use that as an excuse to keep people with no intention of buying from playing with the merchandise, and not as an actual misinterpretation of the law. But that's just my assumption.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

So they do not want to market to future business?

Person thinking about a handgun. Show them some, let them handle them, while you tell them the current requirements.

Good chance to sell them an HQL course, PLUS the handgun.

Pinecone · Jan 11, 2017

Blacksmith101 said:
I made certain my wife owned some regulated firearms in her own name before Oct 2013 just so she would be covered if she ever needed the grandfathering. Cheap Insurance!

I just got her her own HQL.

She already owned regulated firearms.

Pinecone · Jan 11, 2017

good guy 176 said:
Not a good idea to let a newbie take a pistol to the range alone. The concern, of course, is for your wife's safety and those around her. I certainly encourage women participating in the shooting sports; just make sure she is completely familiar with whatever she'll be shooting and that she gets the appropriate training before heading out.

Rule of thumb...expect the unexpected when introducing folks to handling a firearm. I haven't seen em all, but I've seen my share of safety violations in 64 years in the sport.

I've conducted rifle and pistol training, operated ranges while on active duty and as a civilian and have competed since 1952. Fortunately, I've never seen anyone get hurt, maimed or killed.

You might want to enroll your wife in a Women on Target introductory course. We conduct basic courses for pistol, rifle and shotgu at the AGC ranges. Also, a basic Hunter Safety Course is a good one for anyone new to the sport.

Safety is Job #1.

Lew--Ranger63

Uh, DUH. But good for pointing it out.

Nobody said she was not trained or capable.

Can my wife take one of my guns to the range without me been present?

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