.357 Snubbies

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  • Bisleyfan44

    Ultimate Member
    Jan 11, 2008
    1,758
    Wicomico
    I am struggling w/ the best drop in the pocket gun and like the 32 bobcat (6), or Bull pup 9 @ 5"L or the Bond arms "Roughneck" in 357/38 (2) at 4". Any suggestions are welcome since a G19 is too heavy and might make the neighbors nervous.

    Ruger LCR in 38spl
     

    Zorros

    Ultimate Member
    Dec 10, 2017
    1,407
    Metropolis
    I don’t care so much for a striker fired 6# trigger in the pocket. Because i like to drop a handgun in an outside winter coat pocket and keep my hand in the pocket ( with nothing else in the pocket) a sw 642 fits the bill. I think its about 15 oz unloaded, and sw makes a 12 oz 5 shot. a sw 36 and an old colt cobra, both with exposed hammers fit my bill. A walther ppk/s also has that heavy first shot and it is slim and small but i don’t trust its reliability as much as a revolver, it is heavier than the snubbies mentioned and has less power, i think, than a .38 sp.
     

    Biggfoot44

    Ultimate Member
    Aug 2, 2009
    32,877
    I like revolvers .
    There are reasons for prefering revolvers on purpose..
    Medium frame .357 with 2.5 , 2.75, and 3 in bbls are the bee's knees ! ( And yes , I mean with full power loads )

    But a .357 J Frame is a pointless step too far . I'm fairly comfortable with recoil, shooting .50AE and full power .454 one handed . But .38 +P in a 13oz revolver is the absolute far reaches of barely controlability . For most owners of .357 J frames , imeadately following their first usage of full power ammo , their first comments are : That hurts ! I can't control that . What oversized grips can I get that won't hurt ? What mild ammo can I get that I can handle better ?

    If the question instead is " what's the smallest revolver , that can actually be used with the hot ammo that is the whole point of having a .357 ? " , the answer is SP 101 .

    FWIW , the reason d' etre for the .357SIG was to duplicate the ballistics of a 2.5in .357 mag , in a 4in bbl bottomfeeder . ( It does )
     

    GuitarmanNick

    Ultimate Member
    Jan 9, 2017
    2,221
    Laurel
    WADR why would your bedside gun be a snubbie when carry considerations are N/A? I would think that a Glock 20,21, or 17 (or similar) w/ light and laser/night sights would be my hi cap grab it and investigate handgun. The snubbie would be the one I slip into a pocket to walk the dog, kill snakes (both types) or CC.

    Very good question. First, my snubby is a 6 shot, K-frame with Pachmayr rubber grips which is both heavy and wide when compared to my other handguns for CC. It is my bedside gun because I shoot my best groups with it when doing practice drills.
    For slipping in a pocket, the G26 or a P-64 works much better and it is not as easy for others to notice you are carrying. Both are much lighter and smaller than the snubby.
    Each person is unique and I may be one of the uniquest! My vision is somewhat compromised. I have very good vision when I first wake up in darkness due to optic nerve damage. It is my superpower and the only positive I have found from my condition. Night sights are unnecessary on my bedside gun and depending on the sights, may actually impair my ability to see clearly in darkness. My choices are based upon the adaptations I have had to make to continue shooting with some accuracy.
    Each shooter needs to find what works best for them. What works well for me, could be problematic others and vice versa. That is why the best advice is to test different things and find what gives you the best overall result. When you have done that, add a good bit of repetition to develop the muscle memory to effectively defend yourself with the chosen firearm. Train with each weapon until proficient. Then repeat!
    For most, a G-17 with night sights and a light/laser is an excellent choice for home defense. Just not right for me.:)
     

    hobiecat590

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 2, 2016
    2,434
    I like revolvers .
    There are reasons for prefering revolvers on purpose..
    Medium frame .357 with 2.5 , 2.75, and 3 in bbls are the bee's knees ! ( And yes , I mean with full power loads )

    But a .357 J Frame is a pointless step too far . I'm fairly comfortable with recoil, shooting .50AE and full power .454 one handed . But .38 +P in a 13oz revolver is the absolute far reaches of barely controlability . For most owners of .357 J frames , imeadately following their first usage of full power ammo , their first comments are : That hurts ! I can't control that . What oversized grips can I get that won't hurt ? What mild ammo can I get that I can handle better ?

    If the question instead is " what's the smallest revolver , that can actually be used with the hot ammo that is the whole point of having a .357 ? " , the answer is SP 101 .

    FWIW , the reason d' etre for the .357SIG was to duplicate the ballistics of a 2.5in .357 mag , in a 4in bbl bottomfeeder . ( It does )

    The Chiappa Rhino DS20 is the "best" short barreled 357 IMHO excepting its horrendously heavy hammer cocking force to get in single action mode and of course it is ugly as sin. You have to shoot one to appreciate how lightly it kicks w/o mussel flip compared to conventional revolvers, but that was not the point of my original query for a lite pocket gun under 5". I'm thinking a 4.5" Derringer or 5.1" 9mm Bull pup from Bond Arms. thanks
     

    Magnumite

    Ultimate Member
    Dec 17, 2007
    6,561
    Harford County, Maryland
    My experience has been anything shorter than a four inch barrel severely compromises magnum revolver cartridge ballistics. Study the data in this link:
    https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/revolver-ballistics-test/
    You will see many of the 357 Magnum loads have decidedly greater penetration out of the two inch gun as opposed to the 4 inch gun. Simply because the velocity loss didn’t allow proper bullet upset in the gel block. Remember bullets are designed to work in specific velocity ranges. So this means the energy lost in barrel velocity is realized in flash, noise and recoil.

    Sure, more velocity is realized out of the magnum cartridge in the 2” gun but is the resultant disadvantages worth it. I am not recoil sensitive but I watched a muscular student of mine fire a 357 j frame with full house ammo. The recoil was vicious and the flash was paparazzi photo grade intensity. The recoil issue isn’t just of followup shot time and training out flinch in a recoil sensitive shooter, it is also an issue of the revolver shifting in the hands, separating the hands, etc.. Yes, all those are training issues but really worth it?

    For a snubgun, I generally stay with good nonmagnum level ammunition. I have one 2 3/4” inch magnum revolver. I stays loaded with medium intensity ammunition for many of these same reasons.
     

    echo6mike

    Ultimate Member
    Feb 1, 2013
    1,794
    Close to DC
    Just chiming in with a totally non-expert opinion here...

    I've never seen any studies that show much of a difference in self-defense shootings between cartridges. It seems that as long as you've got something more powerful than a .380 (and even that might be perfectly fine IRL), the caliber doesn't really matter. Modern defensive loads seem to all be very effective, just don't load up with FMJ ball ammo.

    Whatever you can carry comfortably without printing and are comfortable shooting is probably going to be enough gun - the biggest thing is to practice. Practice, practice, and more practice - find a range where you can practice drawing from concealed, do lots of short range stress drills, take a good class now and then. I know that the OP understands about muscle memory and drilling things until they're unconscious reactions, apply the same principles to this and you'll be good.
     

    MindTheGAP

    Active Member
    Jan 4, 2018
    574
    Maryland
    I have a .357 snub nose Colt Detective special. I carried it until I bought my first striker-fired polymer framed pistol. Is it technically more reliable / less likely to malf than the plastic? Yes. Is it as capable for the most part? Also yes.

    I don't anticipate ever needing more than 6 in any situation but I will squarely say I'm more comfortable with 15 - 19 and the sights are a damn sight (pun) better on the modern self-loader than the built in irons on the revolver. Still shoot it from time to time but to each his own.
     

    CrazySanMan

    2013'er
    Mar 4, 2013
    11,390
    Colorful Colorado
    I really think my 3" SP-101 is the best out there for concealed carry, for me.

    The SP-101 is much more comfortable than a bulky square clock inside the waistband.

    The 3" barrel on the SP-101 gives better ballistics than the 2 1/4" or 2 1/2" barrel snubbies and I'd trust a .357 in 3.06 barrel to hit harder than a 9mm from a 3.46" barrel.

    I get a much better grip on the SP-101 than I do on the Glock 26.

    The Ruger doesn't have FTF, FTE, etc. Just point and shoot.

    I've reworked the trigger on my Glock and I like it but the SP-101 with the hammer cocked is better.

    I've got arthritic hands and have no trouble at all with the recoil from hot 357 rounds in the SP101.
     

    cstone

    Active Member
    Dec 12, 2018
    842
    Baltimore, MD
    My SP-101 with a change of springs from Wolff Springs is a much better shooter than stock, IMO.

    Felt recoil is a personal thing that only the shooter can judge for themselves.

    The other consideration I have besides how well I shoot a particular firearm is the cost of replacing the gun in the event it goes into some evidence abyss if, God forbid, I ever need to use it. I will never miss any Glock I own if circumstances force it into becoming a manhole cover (can they do that with polymer : ))

    Does anyone know if you can buy just the bobbed hammer replacement for the hammer spur on a SP-101? I would like to have both parts, in case I ever decide to pocket carry. I will not bob a perfectly functional hammer, thus the need for a replacement.
     

    Magnumite

    Ultimate Member
    Dec 17, 2007
    6,561
    Harford County, Maryland
    Just chiming in with a totally non-expert opinion here...

    I've never seen any studies that show much of a difference in self-defense shootings between cartridges. It seems that as long as you've got something more powerful than a .380 (and even that might be perfectly fine IRL), the caliber doesn't really matter. Modern defensive loads seem to all be very effective, just don't load up with FMJ ball ammo.

    Whatever you can carry comfortably without printing and are comfortable shooting is probably going to be enough gun - the biggest thing is to practice. Practice, practice, and more practice - find a range where you can practice drawing from concealed, do lots of short range stress drills, take a good class now and then. I know that the OP understands about muscle memory and drilling things until they're unconscious reactions, apply the same principles to this and you'll be good.

    I will support this. When the Evan Marshall One Shot Stopping Power studies were done he was going to not include the 32 ACP as a viable defensive tool. However, he noticed two loads in the 32 ACP produced credible results. So he included them.
     

    SuperMag

    Citizen--not "Subject"
    Nov 30, 2011
    391
    Maryland
    I've got the 2" SP101 with the spurless hammer, which makes it a DA-only revolver. It is extremely smooth and snagless.

    I carry it when backpacking/camping and load it with .38 Spl. This:

    3.jpg
     

    rockstarr

    Major Deplorable
    Feb 25, 2013
    4,592
    The Bolshevik Lands
    How is the .357 in longer barrels compared to 9mm? Like I know a 9mm doesn’t really benefit much in a 16 inch barrel and the optimum length is generally 8 inches according to most folks.

    Does the .357 in longer barrels like the Henry rifles with the 17 inch barrels, see additional benefit, or is it spent way before that?
     

    Uncle Duke

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 2, 2013
    11,665
    Not Far Enough from the City
    How is the .357 in longer barrels compared to 9mm? Like I know a 9mm doesn’t really benefit much in a 16 inch barrel and the optimum length is generally 8 inches according to most folks.

    Does the .357 in longer barrels like the Henry rifles with the 17 inch barrels, see additional benefit, or is it spent way before that?

    The benefit of a rifle length barrel in 9mm is minimal.

    .357 Magnum, on the other hand, derives considerable benefit. It really comes alive in velocity and energy in a rifle barrel.
     

    Makanik

    Active Member
    Oct 11, 2014
    421
    Cecil Co. Maryland
    My wife carries the Ruger SP101 with the 3.o6 barrel. She uses the 38 Specials though. I can say with my XXL hands shooting about 15 rounds of .357 magnum through it my knuckles start to bruise on my middle finger and trigger finger. She can shoot the 38's all day long.
     

    Biggfoot44

    Ultimate Member
    Aug 2, 2009
    32,877
    .45acp and .40s&w gain essentially nothing from carbine length bbls . 9mm rifle velocities are meaningfully increased over pistols, but vary massively depending upon specific load . It seems to be particularly variable depending upon the burning speed of the powder used .

    In .357 rifles , generic 158gr factory loads give 1700-something fps . Current attenuated loading data gives 1900- ish fps . 40k pressure handloads approach 2100 fps .

    The " problem " with full powered .357mag rifles , is the velocity being Too high . The bullets in most factory ammo, and most component bullets are optimized for handgun velocities . If you are seeking expanding bullets suitable for hunting , the list is very short .

    Per Brian Pearce who has not only written on this , but he and his family members have hunted extensively with .357 rifle . The three jacketed bullets he recomends are Gold Dot , XTP , and the old and unfortunately discontinued Speer 146gr half jacket SWC-HP . He does rate his handloads in .357 favorably over 150gr .30-30 actual factory loads from actual 20in rifles .

    From personal experience , the generic 158gr jsp from 20in rifle does not expand in big game , and penetration is measured in feet , not inches .
     

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