Luger Find

The #1 community for Gun Owners of the Northeast

Member Benefits:

  • No ad networks!
  • Discuss all aspects of firearm ownership
  • Discuss anti-gun legislation
  • Buy, sell, and trade in the classified section
  • Chat with Local gun shops, ranges, trainers & other businesses
  • Discover free outdoor shooting areas
  • View up to date on firearm-related events
  • Share photos & video with other members
  • ...and so much more!
  • HeatSeeker

    Ultimate Member
    Jun 18, 2012
    3,058
    Maryland
    Luger, Holster, and 2 mags....offer $1000 and you will be getting a deal if he takes it.

    I sold the 1936 Hanover Ryffel & Borns Luger Holster and inserted mag pictured below at the Timonium show a few years ago for $300. I also sold a single P08-mag(bottom left) for $140 to a guy online. I sold the Luger on the right, I believe it was Swiss, to a fellow MDS member with the mag and tool for $1100 as well. Just giving you an idea how much these things go for by themselves. The remaining Luger on the left is a 1936 Krieghoff which, coincidentally, is for sale.
     

    Attachments

    • SDC11932.jpg
      SDC11932.jpg
      74.4 KB · Views: 271

    Bob A

    όυ φροντισ
    MDS Supporter
    Patriot Picket
    Nov 11, 2009
    30,690
    GB has a couple 1920 Commercial Lugers with starting price $500, with no bidders. Hard to say whether the caliber (30 Luger) hurts the price/bidding.

    The OP pistol is a parts-box special, I don't know if the (ugly) finish is original, though the Nazi stamps seem pretty crisp.

    I'd offer $500. Doesn't seem unreasonable to me, for a shooter.
     

    Combloc

    Stop Negassing me!!!!!
    Nov 10, 2010
    7,213
    In a House
    No, it is not a "parts box special". VoPo reworks are quite collectible. Yes, most East German reworks are mixed parts but ALL were carefully hand fitted ( mainly at Krieghoff IIRC ) and are considered to be as reliable as an original factory built pistol. Krieghoff is generally accepted as turning out THE BEST P08's ever made. They (Krieghoff) even made a small run of all new P08's for the East Germans before it was decided that it would make more sense to simply rework existing pistols since they were plentiful. I've been collecting East German reworks for 25 years now and I speak from experience. Collectors used to scoff at them but that myopic view has changed considerably.

    BTW, I'll buy every single DDR rework you can find me at 500. I'll even pay 600 per if anyone is dumb enough to sell to me at that price.

    A few of my Eastie's:







     

    Bob A

    όυ φροντισ
    MDS Supporter
    Patriot Picket
    Nov 11, 2009
    30,690
    No, it is not a "parts box special". VoPo reworks are quite collectible. Yes, most East German reworks are mixed parts but ALL were carefully hand fitted ( mainly at Krieghoff IIRC ) and are considered to be as reliable as an original factory built pistol. Krieghoff is generally accepted as turning out THE BEST P08's ever made. They (Krieghoff) even made a small run of all new P08's for the East Germans before it was decided that it would make more sense to simply rework existing pistols since they were plentiful. I've been collecting East German reworks for 25 years now and I speak from experience. Collectors used to scoff at them but that myopic view has changed considerably.

    Well, I learn something new every day. Thanks for your input.
     

    Mark75H

    MD Wear&Carry Instructor
    Industry Partner
    MDS Supporter
    Sep 25, 2011
    17,174
    Outside the Gates
    GB has a couple 1920 Commercial Lugers with starting price $500, with no bidders. Hard to say whether the caliber (30 Luger) hurts the price/bidding.

    The OP pistol is a parts-box special, I don't know if the (ugly) finish is original, though the Nazi stamps seem pretty crisp.

    I'd offer $500. Doesn't seem unreasonable to me, for a shooter.

    Can't find them - not much under $700 except for stuff with outrageous reserves and buy it nows
     

    Yingpin

    Ultimate Member
    May 31, 2013
    1,054
    Kingsville, MD
    GB has a couple 1920 Commercial Lugers with starting price $500, with no bidders. Hard to say whether the caliber (30 Luger) hurts the price/bidding.

    The OP pistol is a parts-box special, I don't know if the (ugly) finish is original, though the Nazi stamps seem pretty crisp.

    I'd offer $500. Doesn't seem unreasonable to me, for a shooter.



    What makes this one a parts box special? I don’t know much about them but what parts are supposed to be stamped and matching?

    Anyway to tell if and when it may have been refinished?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     

    Bob A

    όυ φροντισ
    MDS Supporter
    Patriot Picket
    Nov 11, 2009
    30,690
    What makes this one a parts box special? I don’t know much about them but what parts are supposed to be stamped and matching?

    Anyway to tell if and when it may have been refinished?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

    Pretty much anything with a number stamped on it should incorporate at least the last couple digits of the pistol's serial number; the replaced barrel has a date much later than the date on the receiver. Finish looked funky in the pics, but I really can't tell if it's original. As I mentioned, the stamps didn't look abused. Without the pistol in hand, or a better monitor, I can't speak to the state of the finish.

    However, despite all the points that would have driven me away from the pistol, apparently it is quite collectable because of its post-war history.

    Lugers are hard to value unless you're a specialist, which I am obviously not.
     
    Last edited:

    airbornetrooper

    Active Member
    Nov 9, 2017
    137
    VA
    No, it is not a "parts box special". VoPo reworks are quite collectible. Yes, most East German reworks are mixed parts but ALL were carefully hand fitted ( mainly at Krieghoff IIRC ) and are considered to be as reliable as an original factory built pistol. Krieghoff is generally accepted as turning out THE BEST P08's ever made. They (Krieghoff) even made a small run of all new P08's for the East Germans before it was decided that it would make more sense to simply rework existing pistols since they were plentiful. I've been collecting East German reworks for 25 years now and I speak from experience. Collectors used to scoff at them but that myopic view has changed considerably.

    BTW, I'll buy every single DDR rework you can find me at 500. I'll even pay 600 per if anyone is dumb enough to sell to me at that price.

    A few of my Eastie's:








    Learned something new there. I didn't know that Krieghoff made the small batch you spoke of post-WWII. Great collection btw, thank you for posting.
     

    mawkie

    C&R Whisperer
    Sep 28, 2007
    4,338
    Catonsville
    Can't emphasize enough the need to take the time to get educated on items like Lugers. This thread is a prime example. What looks like a mis-matched shooter grade example is actually collectible to a segment of the Luger community. The Luger world is a big one and knowledge of it can save you hundreds if not thousands. Avail yourself of the many printed and web based Luger reference works to help guide you.
     

    Mark75H

    MD Wear&Carry Instructor
    Industry Partner
    MDS Supporter
    Sep 25, 2011
    17,174
    Outside the Gates
    Can't emphasize enough the need to take the time to get educated on items like Lugers. This thread is a prime example. What looks like a mis-matched shooter grade example is actually collectible to a segment of the Luger community. The Luger world is a big one and knowledge of it can save you hundreds if not thousands. Avail yourself of the many printed and web based Luger reference works to help guide you.

    Looks like is such a complicated subject that its unlikely that anyone new would master it in a year or so.
     
    Jul 1, 2012
    5,711
    It might still be a post-VOPO put-together though, in other words someone else had their hands on after it was VOPO-ized.
    I've seen P.38's like that, where someone down the line pieced it together.
    Note the toggle isn't correct for that receiver date and isn't matched to the gun, and frame has been heavily buffed at least at front left side.
    The finish looks really dark too but that may be the photos.
    The holster looks dyed as well which kills value if that's the case - but maybe post-war manufactured holsters were factory died?
    The import mark also hurts the value to some extent.
    That's why my low estimate for a starting offer.

    That being said, a smart Luger guy needs to look at it in person for a better idea of what it is and isn't.
     
    Jul 1, 2012
    5,711
    Looks like is such a complicated subject that its unlikely that anyone new would master it in a year or so.

    That's why I don't mess with Lugers.
    There are so many excellent fakes and restorations out there it's easy to get screwed, unless you're an expert.
    And even then, the pros get bamboozled too.

    Someone mentioned upstream you can't go wrong with a Luger, but ... it's probably the easiest collectible to lose your shirt on.
     
    Jul 1, 2012
    5,711
    One last observation and I'll bow out (I had to do some research on this one) :

    The Krieghoff factory was "dismantled by the Russians in 1947 and the buildings demolished", and the "tooling was transferred to what became the Ernst-Thalmann Kombinat" (the former pre-war Simson "works"). *, **

    "There they were used in the late 1940's, with other machine tools from the Haenel and other Suhl works, initially to make parts for the refurbishing of P.08's for the ... VOPO ... and finally in 1953, to manufacture a small batch of about 100 pistols from mostly new made parts" **

    Heinrich Krieghoff (and other industrialists) left the Russian occupied zone after the war and came with the Americans to ultimately work out of Ulm **

    That reduces the likelihood that Krieghoff per se made the ~100 N-prefix Lugers, since the factory was literally gone at that point according to the reference.

    Note that there were also about 100 N-prefix P.38's and an unknown number of N-prefix PP's made at the same time (1953), probably as part of the same pilot production program.

    * 1001 is the code for the Ernst-Thalmann Kombinat

    ** Gortz and Sturgess, "Luger and Borchardt Automatic Pistols" c. 2011 (Simpson Ltd) p. 803-804
    (this is one of the most comprehensive Luger references, and I think you can get it in PDF form on DVD separately from the 3-volume set which will run you $220-250 - the DVD does come with the set though and is much more convenient to use).
     

    Yingpin

    Ultimate Member
    May 31, 2013
    1,054
    Kingsville, MD
    I will get some better pics. I️ appreciate the information, guidance and cautions.

    My neighbor is turning 80 next month and getting rid of a bunch of things. I️ will see if I️ can get more information on how he got it.

    The holster feels and smells like it has some kind of leather conditioner on it and I think that and wear is what you are seeing in the left side.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
    Jul 1, 2012
    5,711
    The big thing is just making sure you don't pay collector pricing for shooter-grade unless it is warranted.
    If you like the gun and want to do right by your neighbor and his family, then it probably doesn't matter what you pay as long as you're comfortable.
     

    Bob A

    όυ φροντισ
    MDS Supporter
    Patriot Picket
    Nov 11, 2009
    30,690
    I ran a search for complete auctions of 1920 Commercial Lugers on GB, and came up with 140 postings, many no doubt repeats. There were five sales, ranging from 750 to 1250, and two whose unsuccessful bids topped out at 750 and 840, below reserve price. There were no bids for any of the remaining 133 auctions.

    I tried running a search for "Luger" used, but there were 1089 pages, and no real Lugers on the first few pages; apparently the search picked up "9mm Luger" and gave me thousands of other 9mm pistols.

    Apparently they can be had for high three figures, and the crowd of shoppers on GB is pretty selective in their bidding for these things. I don't know if any other conclusions can be drawn from the information.

    I know the search is flawed, skewed as it is for a model other than the one in the OP.
    There was one VoPo Luger currently being offered at 2500, with many pics. Here's the link:
    http://www.gunbroker.com/item/717757920

    It has been offered at auction 8 previous times, same price, zero bids.
     

    Users who are viewing this thread

    Latest posts

    Forum statistics

    Threads
    274,928
    Messages
    7,259,410
    Members
    33,350
    Latest member
    Rotorboater

    Latest threads

    Top Bottom