Do we have a Due Process case on CCWs?

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  • 6pack

    MSI BOD Member
    Apr 2, 2012
    2,458
    Eldersburg, MD
    We've talked about the HQL lawsuit needing $100k to get moving and much more if it continues to higher courts.
     

    fightinbluhen51

    "Quack Pot Call Honker"
    Oct 31, 2008
    8,974
    the cost of justice, ain't it grand...

    :rolleyes:

    The cost to uphold the constitution. Even worse!

    What about reaching out someone like Landmark Legal Foundation? This is more of a sunshine law problem than it is a 2A jurisprudence.

    Just tossing out ideas.
     

    BeoBill

    Crank in the Third Row
    MDS Supporter
    Oct 3, 2013
    27,064
    南馬里蘭州鮑伊
    In order for there to be a "clincher" (i.e., a remedy) there needs to be a harm to occur to more than one individual. If two people who were denied were assaulted and injured, that might just be the ticket. Just my thoughts; take 'em or leave 'em.
     

    ar154u

    Banned
    BANNED!!!
    Dec 23, 2015
    271
    IANAL, but I'm not sure if another CCW denial case will be heard. Wollard (sic?) was already heard, appealed, and denied cert by Scotus. A judge would just assume that any other case would follow the same route and end up dead on Scotus steps. Now a class action suit with a bunch of denied applicants, that's different because of the amount of people asking for relief. That's my opinion.
     

    Broncolou

    Active Member
    Jan 22, 2013
    689
    Parkton MD
    I would love to get my restrictions removed.

    I have a instructors/friend/s at Balto County Fish & Game that do CCW classes regularly.....I can talk to them when this gets a little further along.
     

    Rab1515

    Ultimate Member
    Patriot Picket
    Apr 29, 2014
    2,081
    Calvert
    I already have my training, but I have been waiting to apply till this recent round of uncertainty clears up, but that's looking like its not going to happen.
     

    Alea Jacta Est

    Extinguished member
    MDS Supporter
    I think you need more strategy.

    I'd spend some time on WHO DOES GET APPROVED. HOW OFTEN THEY GET APPROVED. WHY THEY GET APPROVED/NOT DENIED.

    You reap some benefits from KNOWING THE FACTS AND DATA about who is successful and why.

    Without that, you're just shooting in the dark...

    Just IMO.
     

    PJDiesel

    Banned
    BANNED!!!
    Dec 18, 2011
    17,603
    I think you need more strategy.

    I'd spend some time on WHO DOES GET APPROVED. HOW OFTEN THEY GET APPROVED. WHY THEY GET APPROVED/NOT DENIED.

    You reap some benefits from KNOWING THE FACTS AND DATA about who is successful and why.

    Without that, you're just shooting in the dark...

    Just IMO.


    With around 5,000 permit holders in the "other" category,... it's hard to tell who gets them and for why.
     

    Alea Jacta Est

    Extinguished member
    MDS Supporter
    That should be "public" information.

    By that I mean there's surely a way to protect privacy yet still come to some understanding/knowledge as to who has permits.

    While I have zero data, I'll bet the ranch that "connected" folks have either a different process and or different approval rate than the "unwashed" masses.

    Until you have data, you...like me...are shooting blanks argument wise.

    Unless you have data, you are fighting an uphill battle with their rules, on their turf, with your money on both sides of the legal battle.

    If and when you can prove they are cooking the books/have at least two sets of rules, then the legality of their "process" will be shown the legal door pronto. Then and only then can you demonstrate it ain't about public safety for them or even Constitutional RIGHTS but indeed about inconsistent and unlawful CONTROL.
     

    ar154u

    Banned
    BANNED!!!
    Dec 23, 2015
    271
    I do know the Judge Legg heard the case based on 2nd Amendment rights only instead of hearing the accompanying 14th Amendment issues. Had Judge Legg heard the 14th Amendment part of the suit as well it might have been enough for Scotus to hear the case. Right now G&S means in laymens terms that I must face a higher level of danger than the ordinary citizen faces. That's to say that one criminal has to be more ruthless and meaner and dangerous than any other criminal. That's ridiculous, danger is danger. The difference is that one man may be carrying more money than the next man, but how does a stickup man know who has what. Is one man's life worth more than another man's life? Maryland thinks it is and that is your 14th Amendment argument.
     

    ar154u

    Banned
    BANNED!!!
    Dec 23, 2015
    271
    That should be "public" information.

    By that I mean there's surely a way to protect privacy yet still come to some understanding/knowledge as to who has permits.

    While I have zero data, I'll bet the ranch that "connected" folks have either a different process and or different approval rate than the "unwashed" masses.

    Until you have data, you...like me...are shooting blanks argument wise.

    Unless you have data, you are fighting an uphill battle with their rules, on their turf, with your money on both sides of the legal battle.

    If and when you can prove they are cooking the books/have at least two sets of rules, then the legality of their "process" will be shown the legal door pronto. Then and only then can you demonstrate it ain't about public safety for them or even Constitutional RIGHTS but indeed about inconsistent and unlawful CONTROL.
    I don't think that information should be public. After all everyone complained when it was talked about publishing the names and addresses of those who legally possess firearms. We can't have it both ways.
     

    BeoBill

    Crank in the Third Row
    MDS Supporter
    Oct 3, 2013
    27,064
    南馬里蘭州鮑伊
    I think you need more strategy.

    I'd spend some time on WHO DOES GET APPROVED. HOW OFTEN THEY GET APPROVED. WHY THEY GET APPROVED/NOT DENIED.

    You reap some benefits from KNOWING THE FACTS AND DATA about who is successful and why.

    Without that, you're just shooting in the dark...

    Just IMO.

    That's called analysis in adult circles. It works.

    From recent observation, I'd guess with everything else even the odds are less than 50-50 in favor of a permit award the way the board is staffed. IF you even get to the HPRB stage in the process.
     
    Last edited:

    dblas

    Past President, MSI
    MDS Supporter
    Apr 6, 2011
    13,087
    That should be "public" information.

    By that I mean there's surely a way to protect privacy yet still come to some understanding/knowledge as to who has permits.

    While I have zero data, I'll bet the ranch that "connected" folks have either a different process and or different approval rate than the "unwashed" masses.

    Until you have data, you...like me...are shooting blanks argument wise.

    Unless you have data, you are fighting an uphill battle with their rules, on their turf, with your money on both sides of the legal battle.

    If and when you can prove they are cooking the books/have at least two sets of rules, then the legality of their "process" will be shown the legal door pronto. Then and only then can you demonstrate it ain't about public safety for them or even Constitutional RIGHTS but indeed about inconsistent and unlawful CONTROL.

    The "other" he refers to are permits issued that do not currently fit into any of the named categories that MSP has in MAFFS.
     

    dblas

    Past President, MSI
    MDS Supporter
    Apr 6, 2011
    13,087
    I think you need more strategy.

    I'd spend some time on WHO DOES GET APPROVED. HOW OFTEN THEY GET APPROVED. WHY THEY GET APPROVED/NOT DENIED.

    You reap some benefits from KNOWING THE FACTS AND DATA about who is successful and why.

    Without that, you're just shooting in the dark...

    Just IMO.

    Great, how would you propose that information gets attained so it can be looked at?
     

    Alea Jacta Est

    Extinguished member
    MDS Supporter
    Great, how would you propose that information gets attained so it can be looked at?
    So..I ain't an attorney. I didn't stay in a HI lately...

    Isn't there such a thing as discovery? Isn't there such a thing as FOIA?

    The government cannot run a process like this without some degree of public insight/oversight.

    Surely there is a way to compel them to document and make "public" the outcomes/results of this process. If not, then there's even more of a case to be made for the fact that this is an inconsistent, broken and illegal process.

    If you think it ain't worth pursuing, don't. I've got my CCW. Indeed, I've got a couple.

    I'm trying to get folks to look at this from different perspectives.

    Just as soon as you think you've given it your best; you're done. If you're the smartest guy in the room; not. If you've exhausted the approaches to the problem; you have not.

    Consider the problem. Ask what you do know. Consider carefully what you need to know to prove or disprove what you think. Ask what kind of confidence you have in what you "know". Ask who does actually know the truth as depicted by the data. Figure out what you need. Go get it.

    ...or sit on your keester and throw stones at folks who are trying to help. Your call.

    No skin off my arse.
     

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