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occbrian said:

So I'm getting ready to make the jump into reloading, more as a hobby than anything.

Big question.... Most of this fuzzy math seems to depend on getting an unusual deal or picking up certain components free, IE, brass.

I was at bass pro the other day and 100 45 cases were going for $36. That's .36 cents per round... Just for brass. Assuming you use each case x3, you are still at .12 per round. Plus bullets, primers and powder.

Not flaming, genuinely curious. It seems like these heavy savings depend on scrounging brass from ranges.

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In reality, as long as you are not running heavy loads out of the brass, you should be able to use each piece at least 5 times. To make this even better, don't buy brass at BassPro in those piddly quantities, buy it in bulk of 500-1000 cases. It will cost a heck of a lot less than you stacking 5 or 10 bags of the BassPro brass in your cart. Midway doesn't have it in stock right now but look at the prices for 500-1000 pieces of 45 brass compared to BassPro.

http://www.midwayusa.com/find?sortby=1&itemsperpage=24&newcategorydimensionid=5812

Get as much stuff in bulk as you can, so you wind up spending less in the long run. Primers are usually sold in bricks of 1000, so if you buy everything in multiples of 1000 you should be good to go.

occbrian said:

So I'm getting ready to make the jump into reloading, more as a hobby than anything.

Big question.... Most of this fuzzy math seems to depend on getting an unusual deal or picking up certain components free, IE, brass.

I was at bass pro the other day and 100 45 cases were going for $36. That's .36 cents per round... Just for brass. Assuming you use each case x3, you are still at .12 per round. Plus bullets, primers and powder.

Not flaming, genuinely curious. It seems like these heavy savings depend on scrounging brass from ranges.

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One piece of brass can load around 8 to 10 times, so divide to get your total cost. Some say they have gotten as much as 20 uses. Just inspect the brass before reloading it. The manuals show you how.

Traveler said:

One piece of brass can load around 8 to 10 times, so divide to get your total cost. Some say they have gotten as much as 20 uses. Just inspect the brass before reloading it. The manuals show you how.

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My dad has always done his own reloading and said to never go past three per case. He was reloading rifle cartridges and 44 mag, so I guess there is probably a huge difference since 45 acp has such lower pressures. Makes sense.

DaemonAssassin said:

In reality, as long as you are not running heavy loads out of the brass, you should be able to use each piece at least 5 times. To make this even better, don't buy brass at BassPro in those piddly quantities, buy it in bulk of 500-1000 cases. It will cost a heck of a lot less than you stacking 5 or 10 bags of the BassPro brass in your cart. Midway doesn't have it in stock right now but look at the prices for 500-1000 pieces of 45 brass compared to BassPro.

http://www.midwayusa.com/find?sortby=1&itemsperpage=24&newcategorydimensionid=5812

Get as much stuff in bulk as you can, so you wind up spending less in the long run. Primers are usually sold in bricks of 1000, so if you buy everything in multiples of 1000 you should be good to go.

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Makes sense. Thanks for the info.

occbrian said:

My dad has always done his own reloading and said to never go past three per case. He was reloading rifle cartridges and 44 mag, so I guess there is probably a huge difference since 45 acp has such lower pressures. Makes sense.

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My dad loads 44 Mag and loads each piece of brass a maximum of 5 times. There used to be a wild dog problem where he lives in WV so he was running some really hot loads.

The 45 can have high pressures too, it all depends on how you load it. Just read up on the caliber(s) you want to load for and you should be ok to use a piece of brass 10 times or more, as long as you aren't making hot loads.

MaxVO2 said:

**** SNIP. I would rather work an extra hour or two at what I do for a living and just buy the ammo all ready made, and that meets my needs.

If I were to get into reloading it would also be more as a hobby as opposed to trying to save some money. Specialization of labor like what was described by Adam Smith (the pin factory..) in his Wealth of Nations book is what has allowed us to spend more time enjoying shooting, or watching the Girlz-N-Guns thread as opposed to having to spend time reloading our own ammo, foraging for food, or developing our own porn, pulling pork for lunch, etc..
SNIP

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I agree with a lot of your post. This would be a hobby for me and being a salaried employee, putting a few extra hours behind the desk doesn't sound near as enticing as sitting behind the reloading bench and cranking out my own ammo. It isn't a money thing, although that would be a benefit. I would personally prefer to be self-sufficient when it comes to producing my own ammo (short of casting boolits) than spend more time on MDS

I appreciate the time, effort and knowledge it takes to truly become proficient at something and I would like to do so with reloading. The main benefit is the experience and satisfaction of doing something myself AND being able to take my firearms to the limit of their accuracy. Experimenting with different powders, loads and bullets just sounds cool to me. Guess I'm a dork haha. Probably the same reason I completely disassemble every firearm I own as soon as I purchase it. I want to know exactly how it functions and why.

Of course we don't NEED to reload on our own anymore, but that can be said about a lot of things. Washing your own car, planting your own garden for food, hunting for meat, DIY projects around the house and yard work all come to mind. Can I afford to pay someone else to do those things? Yes. Does it make sense for me to do it myself if I enjoy it? Of course.

Developing my own porn sounds fantastic btw.

MaxVO2 said:

****My dad was into reloading for some time and the cost savings didn't ever seem to add up given the time he spent on doing it, the cost of the equipment, etc.. I would rather work an extra hour or two at what I do for a living and just buy the ammo all ready made, and that meets my needs.

If I were to get into reloading it would also be more as a hobby as opposed to trying to save some money. Specialization of labor like what was described by Adam Smith (the pin factory..) in his Wealth of Nations book is what has allowed us to spend more time enjoying shooting, or watching the Girlz-N-Guns thread as opposed to having to spend time reloading our own ammo, foraging for food, or developing our own porn, pulling pork for lunch, etc..

Other people make most of what we need, and can probably do a better job, and more cheaply than we can, or at least cheap enough where it doesn't make sense to set up shop to do it unless you have no other option. I've been lucky enough to be able to buy cheap enough ammo over the years that shoots well enough where I am not motivated to set up my own reloading press except as a hobby..

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Can't agree more.
I think the only aspect about reloading I think is interesting is the experimenting you can do if you have the need to do so. But to do your experimenting correctly you need one of the gizmos that track the speed of your ammo, (it's name escapes me now). But now your into much bigger money with equipment.

If a reloader is trying to really fine tune for the best ammo for whatever kind of ammo they need for their kind of shooting they are not also seeing if they can do it with the cheapest supplies they can buy so the can say how much less they are paying per round. price is the last thing they are concerned about. They are all about performance. And preference cost.

First of all, someone that is really fine tuning ammo is putting their bullets on a scale and only using the bullets that fall into their specifications. out of a box of 500 bullets they may only keep 1/2. The rest get put in the trash. Or maybe given to a friend that is only concerned about cutting cost.

Other then that, being a smart shopper is the way to go and waiting for the good bulk deals of 1000 - 1600 at a time to keep the store bought ammo down. And spend more time shooting or doing anything else you enjoy doing.

occbrian said:

I agree with a lot of your post. This would be a hobby for me and being a salaried employee, putting a few extra hours behind the desk doesn't sound near as enticing as sitting behind the reloading bench and cranking out my own ammo. It isn't a money thing, although that would be a benefit. I would personally prefer to be self-sufficient when it comes to producing my own ammo (short of casting boolits) than spend more time on MDS

I appreciate the time, effort and knowledge it takes to truly become proficient at something and I would like to do so with reloading. The main benefit is the experience and satisfaction of doing something myself AND being able to take my firearms to the limit of their accuracy. Experimenting with different powders, loads and bullets just sounds cool to me. Guess I'm a dork haha. Probably the same reason I completely disassemble every firearm I own as soon as I purchase it. I want to know exactly how it functions and why.

Of course we don't NEED to reload on our own anymore, but that can be said about a lot of things. Washing your own car, planting your own garden for food, hunting for meat, DIY projects around the house and yard work all come to mind. Can I afford to pay someone else to do those things? Yes. Does it make sense for me to do it myself if I enjoy it? Of course.

Developing my own porn sounds fantastic btw.

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Everyone that gets into reloading likes it for the first year. But I bet only 1/3rd continue to still like it after that.

Pinecone said:

So 41 cents a round, versus 13 cents per round. How does that make sense?

100 rounds per week = an average of 6 minutes per week. Yeap, that REALLY cuts into my other activities.

A few weeks ago I reloaded 4000 rounds of pistol ammunition over a bit over a week. Yes, FOUR THOUSAND.

I worked for about 20 - 30 minutes each evening when I got home, and a couple of hours each of two weekends.

So now I can shoot for months without reloading.

Again, if you don't want to reload, DON'T. But there is NO WAY you can justify it by the price.

And thanks for the 29 cent each brass you are throwing away. I DO appreciate it. I will even say Thank You at the range.

Oh, and BTW, I buy from Midway and other suppliers who also support the NRA.

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Because respectfully I do not believe anyone is making jacketed 45's for 13 cents a round. If you think lead is just as good as a jacketed round I suggest you just have yourself talked into that because if you don't, even you would have to admit reloading is a waist of time because you have to reload with lead for it to be cost effective.

And you have to believe lead is just as good. But 90% if not all of the firearms manufactures caution against using lead round in their guns. If lead rounds are just as good, why would they give you these warnings?

Merlin said:

Everyone that gets into reloading likes it for the first year. But I bet only 1/3rd continue to still like it after that.

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I've been punching out primers and rolling cases with my dad for 20 years, so I'm not a virgin to it. Just setting up my own bench since I moved away from home.

The only thing I see here that doesn't add up is Merlin keeps saying he doesn't have the time "to waste" reloading because he would rather spend it doing a million other things...yet he has time to sit and argue for days at a time about how people can't save money reloading and it's not worth their time. Shouldn't you be off spending that precious time doing one of the many things that you would rather do than reload?

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Merlin said:

Everyone that gets into reloading likes it for the first year. But I bet only 1/3rd continue to still like it after that.

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I don't understand why you have to keep dogging on those posting that they want to do it. A hobby is a personal thing that interest the individual. I mean, if you're going to hurt someone in the process that's one thing but if it just doesn't make sense to you, who cares? Just my two cents.

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Merlin said:

Instead of barely used, still in box, they should have said; barely used, discovered it's not cost effective, put back in box.

It's been years the last time sitting in front of a press for hours a hours was cost effective.

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I just don't get it. You don't like reloading and don't think it's profitable. We got that in the first response. Somebody spotted what they thought was a deal and shared it with others who might be interested. Based on every response you have made in this thread, it's clear that you're not interested. Some people like to grow their own vegetables, some just buy them because it's easier. Some people change their own oil and work on their vehicles. Others take it to a shop and pay more, because it's easier. Some people like to reload because it saves them money, they like to customize their loads, they think the quality is better, or just because they enjoy doing it as a hobby. Other people think it's a waste of time and prefer to just stock up on it when it's on sale and buy it at the store. Either way is fine, do whatever you want. Nobody is trying to force you into reloading, clearly it isn't for you, you've made that point about 100 times in here. I just don't see how on one hand your reasoning for not doing so is because you'd "rather spend time with the family" or any of the other reasons you listed, yet you'll sit here and waste hours out of your day trying to convince people that they are wrong about reloading or that they can't save money, or that it's not worth their time. Who cares? I don't think anybody that reloads really cares how much you dislike it or that it's not for you. Everything is not for everybody. We know your stance, it's not for you, cool. You say that you "don't have the time to waste" on reloading, but sitting here for however long you've been arguing about this you're doing just that, wasting your time on reloading. You just don't have any ammo to show for all the time wasted.

zmayhem said:

I just don't get it. You don't like reloading and don't think it's profitable. We got that in the first response. Somebody spotted what they thought was a deal and shared it with others who might be interested. Based on every response you have made in this thread, it's clear that you're not interested. Some people like to grow their own vegetables, some just buy them because it's easier. Some people change their own oil and work on their vehicles. Others take it to a shop and pay more, because it's easier. Some people like to reload because it saves them money, they like to customize their loads, they think the quality is better, or just because they enjoy doing it as a hobby. Other people think it's a waste of time and prefer to just stock up on it when it's on sale and buy it at the store. Either way is fine, do whatever you want. Nobody is trying to force you into reloading, clearly it isn't for you, you've made that point about 100 times in here. I just don't see how on one hand your reasoning for not doing so is because you'd "rather spend time with the family" or any of the other reasons you listed, yet you'll sit here and waste hours out of your day trying to convince people that they are wrong about reloading or that they can't save money, or that it's not worth their time. Who cares? I don't think anybody that reloads really cares how much you dislike it or that it's not for you. Everything is not for everybody. We know your stance, it's not for you, cool. You say that you "don't have the time to waste" on reloading, but sitting here for however long you've been arguing about this you're doing just that, wasting your time on reloading. You just don't have any ammo to show for all the time wasted.

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I'm with you. I bought my components in January and based off what I paid I will have 6 months til it is paying for its self. Every situation is different... for example I got into reloading with family and friends and we reload 5 different calibers. One of those calibers costs $2 per rd so cost effectiveness is definitely there! As far as component prices... you just need to know where to look! $31 for Merlins alliant powders is not a deal. Patience and enjoyment of the hobby really pay off in the end. And again, with 6 of us reloading together, we will have it "paid off" at the six month mark based on what we are currently shooting.

Alright, since this thread is off topic... Is it worth it to reload if I get all free equipment? Is the equipment something that needs to be upgraded after so many years?

I ask because my Pops used to hold an FFL and got into reloading a little too, but stopped about 17 years ago. His stuff has been boxed up since. If I can get the stubborn a--hole to give it up, is there anything I should be concerned with and look for?


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usaf_joe said:

Alright, since this thread is off topic... Is it worth it to reload if I get all free equipment? Is the equipment something that needs to be upgraded after so many years?

I ask because my Pops used to hold an FFL and got into reloading a little too, but stopped about 17 years ago. His stuff has been boxed up since. If I can get the stubborn a--hole to give it up, is there anything I should be concerned with and look for?


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I'll save Merlin the trouble of wasting anymore of his time on something related to reloading. His response, "No! It's never worth it!"

In reality, only you can decide if it's worth it for you to do. I'm sure somebody from the board who reloads and lives in your area wouldn't mind taking a look at your equipment and helping you get started so you can decide if it's something you'd like to do.

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m

sgtjunk said:

I don't understand why you have to keep dogging on those posting that they want to do it. A hobby is a personal thing that interest the individual. I mean, if you're going to hurt someone in the process that's one thing but if it just doesn't make sense to you, who cares? Just my two cents.

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I'm just trying to get the guy to take off the rose colored glasses when considering getting into reloading. Many here are very misleading to someone thinking about spending hard earned money into this.

So far some have said they make 45 rounds for 9cents, and another person said they make 45 rounds for 13cents, and then say this dirt cheap ammo is every bit as good as jacketed ammo.

Even knowing that all firearm manufacturer recommend against lead rounds.

Another guy wants us to believe that after just a few hours during the week and just a few hours on the weekend he can reload enough for 6 months of shooting.

I reloaded before and I know how long it takes to make ammo. I know how long it takes to remove the bullets on 100's and 100's of rounds after you discover the powder your using was bad.

I know what it's like taking the brass of others hoping the range employees don't see you, feeling like a thief but you have to do it to keep the price down so it's worth wild.

One person is convinced the longer he sits at the bench the more money he making.

So I'm trying to point out to the young guys that are considering reloading they may reload ammo for less, but when reloading in the large volume we are talking here the ammo is not as good as jacketed store bought.

Yes, there are people who reload and do make better ammo then store bought, but they are the people with the single stage presses that make one round at a time. They use the more expensive components and they weigh their bullets. They use the bullets that weigh exactly the same and not the rest.

And it's not me that warning shooters about the dangers of using lead, the firearm manufacturer are. And it's not me that is saying that there is much more lead transfer where it's much harder to clean your guns, 90% of the gun world is saying that.

If you like reloading, marvelous. If you want to tell these young guy's what you like about it, wonderful. But give them the real numbers. And no, you're not making money the longer you sit at the bench. If anything your spending even more money because your making way more ammo then you ever needed before you started to reload your own. And add in all the time you put into making ammo to include the time you spend on the floor of the range picking up the brass of others. As well as the time spent repairing 500 rounds after you discover something was not right with them and you have to remake them.

Where do you get the idea that manufacturers recommend against using lead bullets? The only one to my knowledge is Glock, and then only due to the tighter tolerances polygonal rifling.

Other manufacturers are in bed with ammo companies too, so consider that any recommendation toward factory ammo comes as much from business and marketing as anything else.

And also forgive my saying this, but my father probably forgot more about guns and ammo than you or I will ever know, and he had no qualms about casting and using lead bullets, even though he also used jacketed bullets. It isn't like there is some kind of added risk where guns randomly blow up due to the use of lead bullets.

Either way though, hand loading still saves money, and it gives a person the ability to tailor their hand loads. I remember when I was a kid my father actually remarked multiple times on the lack of consistency and quality of factory loads. While this has likely improved remarkably since then, back when I was a kid, Dad's hand loads were by far more consistent than factory ammo, lead or jacketed.

Merlin, feel free to live in your dream world on this subject, but you can't use flawed and twisted logic to make a case simply because you find reloading to be beneath you for some reason.

As a side note, not once have I had to undo any of my reloads. Not once. I'd say the reason for this is due to paying attention and being smart about what I'm doing.

Another side note regarding getting younger guys into it. A kid at work wanted to ask me about reloading, and after I weighed out the pros and cons, he jumped right in with both feet, geared up with a basic single stage setup, and has absolutely no regrets about it.

Regarding feeling like a theif picking up extra cases at the range, I have no qualms about it. The range charges me more than enough for my time, and they don't reload. They sell the brass for scrap, and I'm not taking brass from anyone else who reloads, so if I grab up a handfull of extra cases, oh well. The range didn't pay for them, some other shooter did.

Ultimately it doesn't matter what you have posted. Anyone who is doing research into the matter who sees this thread will weigh it out against all of the other sources they find regrading the savings and rewards of reloading, so your contrary opinions will be washed away by the overwhelming deluge of information that supports it.