MSP SOP - Processing of Handgun Permit Applications

Gryphon · Nov 30, 2016

By law the new/current SOP for processing Handgun Permits should have been made public on the Internet by October 1, 2016 along with all other agency SOPs. MSP released their SOPs via Dropbox, but noticeably absent was any SOP for permit processing. I suppose that means the old SOP was revoked and there is no SOP so they just make it up as they go? The only other option is that they have refused or failed to comply with the law - nothing new if the latter is true. The next applicant appealing to the Board that requests a copy of their file should request a copy of any SOP utilized during their permit review process and see what they get. When I did that (prior to the new posting requirement) I was told it was available online - which was nonresponsive to my PIA request - again no surprise coming from MSP.

Jaybeez · Nov 30, 2016

Reviewed means one thing. It doesnt necessarily mean a new draft.

But im not sure if a new draft is required every year. I was under the impression that it was written as part of a certification/compliance audit that happens every 3 years.

If the 2015 SOP is still posted online, i would assume that it is still the current SOP.

Gryphon · Nov 30, 2016

It wasn't posted with the rest of MSPs olunious SOPs in the Dropbox as required by law. The absence of a permit SOP is remarkable.

CrueChief · Nov 30, 2016

Gryphon said:
It wasn't posted with the rest of MSPs olunious SOPs in the Dropbox as required by law. The absence of a permit SOP is remarkable.

Don't worry the Hogan apologists will be along shortly to smack your pee pee for this heresy. :spank:

BeoBill · Nov 30, 2016

Gryphon said:
It wasn't posted with the rest of MSPs olunious SOPs in the Dropbox as required by law. The absence of a permit SOP is remarkable.

I guess the follow-on logical question now is "What do we do about this to exploit the situation?" I'm taking a leaf from the antis' book here.

Biggfoot44 · Nov 30, 2016

It took them 43 years to admit the existance of an SOP , its only a cpl months so far tardy on reposting.

Stoveman · Nov 30, 2016

CrueChief said:
Don't worry the Hogan apologists will be along shortly to smack your pee pee for this heresy.

I don't recall seeing any Hogan apologists here, just political pragmatists.

But if you are referring to those of us who think that someone in the Guv's mansion who is not ass raping the 2A like his predecessor is a good thing as apologists then so be it.

Bourbonstamps · Nov 30, 2016

Hogan is being a coward. I'm sick of waiting to get my rights back.

CrueChief · Nov 30, 2016

Maybe just maybe Hogan could at the very least instruct the MSP super to politely ask his troopers in the LD to not be openly hostile to permit applicants that would progress worth talking about. After all he was all about customer service if he doesn't want to do anything then at least that.

BeoBill · Dec 1, 2016

CrueChief said:
Maybe just maybe Hogan could at the very least instruct the MSP super to politely ask his troopers in the LD to not be openly hostile to permit applicants that would progress worth talking about. After all he was all about customer service if he doesn't want to do anything then at least that.

Which blithely ignores the facts that the MSP is under the philosophical thumb of the AG, Baron Frosh, and Hogan is a captive of the MGA until we VOTE THE BASTARDS OUT.

Gryphon · Dec 1, 2016

CrueChief said:
Don't worry the Hogan apologists will be along shortly to smack your pee pee for this heresy.

It's not Gov. Hogan's job to post the SOPs for the MSP. The MSP Super and his division of designees should be able to handle that much all on their own. :rolleyes:

I suspect it's just a lack of leadership or rogue leadership at MSP. Maybe someone just forgot? :rolleyes:

Anyway, just trying to keep the facts straight so I don't think that makes me an apologist.

I wasn't entirely joking about the SOP being rescinded since it is no longer published with the rest of the many SOPs - it was full of made up stuff (the product of over zealous efforts to satisfy prior anti admins) not supported by the actual law anyway.

Gryphon · Dec 1, 2016

CrueChief said:
Maybe just maybe Hogan could at the very least instruct the MSP super to politely ask his troopers in the LD to not be openly hostile to permit applicants that would progress worth talking about. After all he was all about customer service if he doesn't want to do anything then at least that.

Okay, at the risk of sounding like a Hogan apologist I'll try to assign blame where blame is due. There is a Superintendent and Licensing Division Commander and staff who are responsible for carrying out the Governor's improved customer service program. Hogan has made his desire about CS clear, and the MSP should be smart enough to implement it. The Super doesn't need to politely ask anything. Colonels give orders (usually) and subordinates follow them.

But I whole heartedly agree the disdain toward applicants reflected in the LD's conduct doesn't help. It just fuels animosity. Of course in all fairness I suppose the troopers in the LD feel the same way when they read these threads. That's truly unfortunate, but it's tough for many of us not to express frustration toward individuals complicit in denying a fundamental right to self-defense. Plus it's easy when just typing on a keyboard connected to the internet. I myself have been guilty of that much in the past. Both sides have to find a way to keep the dialogue constructive. Neither side should have to view the other as the "enemy," but I understand that's how many feel and improved CS would help.

In contrast, it's quite ironic that nearly every LEO I have encountered who for various reasons came to know I carry has been incredibly supportive.

I don't think the LD staff are bad people. They are just stuck trying to implement sh*tty, ambiguous, ill-defined MGA laws under years of training and pressure by liberal, anti AAG's, and now they are encountering a growing citizenry that has had enough of it. At least we are not the ones blocking traffic, beating innocent people in the streets, and burning police cars.

BeoBill · Dec 1, 2016

Gryphon said:
...I don't think the LD staff are bad people. They are just stuck trying to implement sh*tty, ambiguous, ill-defined MGA laws under years of training and pressure by liberal, anti AAG's, and now they are encountering a growing citizenry that has had enough of it. At least we are not the ones blocking traffic, beating innocent people in the streets, and burning police cars.

Then why do they constantly act like schoolyard bullies at the HPRB meetings? I don't see much change over time and view that as a RIPE area for improvement on their part.

basscat · Dec 1, 2016

Granted, they have a job to do but they can do it without the "gulag" mentality. I know they have to follow orders from above. Maybe some of their rejections would be easier to swallow if they changed their "holyier than thou" attitudes.

CrueChief · Dec 1, 2016

BeoBill said:
Then why do they constantly act like schoolyard bullies at the HPRB meetings? I don't see much change over time and view that as a RIPE area for improvement on their part.

This is all i'm saying. I know we can't have shall issue. But if we are to accept that he didn't run on 2a issues and barring a mass exodus of the dems in the MGA we aren't going to get any movement on 2a issues. I except that I really do, it sucks but it is what it is. They don't have to hand out permits like candy but from the way it sounds from the AAR's it really does seem like they take it personally and if we can't even get that changed then how are we really better off?

And I don't believe Hogan is stopping them from passing anything they want. If they wanted to follow up of FSA2013 they could so to say if not Hogan then we would be worse off under Brown that isn't entirely true as they have a veto proof majority. So its not because of Hogan they didn't, It's just because they chose not to follow it up. And from the results of the last election they clearly don't have anything to be afraid of. We will know in the midterms if MD is a lost cause. Until then we will be stuck with hoping nothing changes.

Stoveman · Dec 1, 2016

CrueChief said:
And I don't believe Hogan is stopping them from passing anything they want. If they wanted to follow up of FSA2013 they could so to say if not Hogan then we would be worse off under Brown that isn't entirely true as they have a veto proof majority.

They haven't stopped, there were 12 anti gun bills introduced last session.

dblas · Dec 1, 2016

CrueChief said:
This is all i'm saying. I know we can't have shall issue. But if we are to accept that he didn't run on 2a issues and barring a mass exodus of the dems in the MGA we aren't going to get any movement on 2a issues. I except that I really do, it sucks but it is what it is. They don't have to hand out permits like candy but from the way it sounds from the AAR's it really does seem like they take it personally and if we can't even get that changed then how are we really better off?

And I don't believe Hogan is stopping them from passing anything they want. If they wanted to follow up of FSA2013 they could so to say if not Hogan then we would be worse off under Brown that isn't entirely true as they have a veto proof majority. So its not because of Hogan they didn't, It's just because they chose not to follow it up. And from the results of the last election they clearly don't have anything to be afraid of. We will know in the midterms if MD is a lost cause. Until then we will be stuck with hoping nothing changes.

They continue to push ant gun bills, as Stoveman mentioned, 12 last year, and I believe just as many in 2015. What stops them, we do, this community, showing up and testifying, showing up and being a presence in the hearings. For those that can't take the time off, submitting written testimony or simply writing and/or calling the committee members. Being a thorn in their sides and a pain in their asses, is what has prevented anything else bad from passing. Those same actions are what have also given us the baby steps we have gotten over the last couple of session.

Small victories, no matter how "insignificant" anyone may think they are, add up and start to lead to larger victories. That is how the other side put us where we are over the last 40+ years and that is how we will get our rights back, on "insignificant" bill at a time. Add those to the court cases working their way through the system and we will get our rights back. It will take some time, but certainly not the 40+ years it took for us to get here and start to turn things around.

People need to stay pissed and do things, anything that they think will help work to get our rights back. For the next two years that includes fighting in Annapolis and then working to re elect the Governor, regardless of what he hasn't done for us.

mopar92 · Dec 1, 2016

dblas said:
They continue to push ant gun bills, as Stoveman mentioned, 12 last year, and I believe just as many in 2015. What stops them, we do, this community, showing up and testifying, showing up and being a presence in the hearings. For those that can't take the time off, submitting written testimony or simply writing and/or calling the committee members. Being a thorn in their sides and a pain in their asses, is what has prevented anything else bad from passing. Those same actions are what have also given us the baby steps we have gotten over the last couple of session.

Small victories, no matter how "insignificant" anyone may think they are, add up and start to lead to larger victories. That is how the other side put us where we are over the last 40+ years and that is how we will get our rights back, on "insignificant" bill at a time. Add those to the court cases working their way through the system and we will get our rights back. It will take some time, but certainly not the 40+ years it took for us to get here and start to turn things around.

People need to stay pissed and do things, anything that they think will help work to get our rights back. For the next two years that includes fighting in Annapolis and then working to re elect the Governor, regardless of what he hasn't done for us.

No, no, no. Don't you know the MDGA has never removed their support from an anti gun bill based on citizen testimony. As a matter if fact, last year Dumais spearheaded the effort to make BP guns need a background check and now all BP guns need a 4473. They would never, ever consider what a mere peasant has to say.

Biggfoot44 · Dec 1, 2016

There is still a difference between not having a veto proof majority, and having a Gov spearhead an effort, and do major hardball armtwisting to get it passed.

BeoBill · Dec 2, 2016

mopar92 said:
No, no, no. Don't you know the MDGA has never removed their support from an anti gun bill based on citizen testimony. As a matter if fact, last year Dumais spearheaded the effort to make BP guns need a background check and now all BP guns need a 4473. They would never, ever consider what a mere peasant has to say.

FIFY. For the benefit of the noobs.

MSP SOP - Processing of Handgun Permit Applications

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