? on 10.5" 300 blackout barrel

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  • outrider58

    Eats Bacon Raw
    MDS Supporter
    Jul 29, 2014
    49,818
    Unfortunately, not exactly correct. For Federal purposes, once an SBR, always an SBR. So if you decide to travel out-of-state, you'd still have to file the ATF paperwork, no matter which upper you put on it.
    I'm not sure that is correct.

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    Biggfoot44

    Ultimate Member
    Aug 2, 2009
    32,884
    A Machinegun is always a Machinegun , but an SBR is only an SBR when it IS a SBR .

    But seperately I've got reseverations about Grandfather status for a post '13 SBR creation .
     

    outrider58

    Eats Bacon Raw
    MDS Supporter
    Jul 29, 2014
    49,818
    This thread has gotten my interest, too. I was in a shop a while back and saw what appeared to be an AR pattern firearm with a very short barrel that might have been sold as a pistol, even though it had Magpul style stock and furniture. I didn't ask then, but I sure wish I had now.

    Is there any place we can go to read the actual rules and regs for ourselves? TIA.
    I was just reading about those. Can't recall the brand off the top of my head. They have straight lands and groves which renders them "not a rifle". They require special ammunition and have limited range. Pricey too.

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    DutchV

    Ultimate Member
    Jul 8, 2012
    4,703
    I'm not sure that is correct.

    I get it. It's a technicality. And stuff we hear might be in good faith but still not right. It happens. Would it matter? I'm not good with taking a risk in that department.

    I'm told, by people I think are likely correct, that once an SBR has been added to the NFA registry, it stays there, regardless of configuration. The lower is the serialized, engraved, NFA registered part. The upper isn't important as long as you can make it the original configuration again. So an SBR with a 16" barrel is still considered an SBR.

    You can have it removed from the registry if you change your mind.

    No, I don't own any SBR's. If I did, I'd get guidance from ATF before I travelled. And I'd keep the letter with my copy of the stamp. Or I'd build a pistol lower and take that along instead.
     

    outrider58

    Eats Bacon Raw
    MDS Supporter
    Jul 29, 2014
    49,818
    I get it. It's a technicality. And stuff we hear might be in good faith but still not right. It happens. Would it matter? I'm not good with taking a risk in that department.

    I'm told, by people I think are likely correct, that once an SBR has been added to the NFA registry, it stays there, regardless of configuration. The lower is the serialized, engraved, NFA registered part. The upper isn't important as long as you can make it the original configuration again. So an SBR with a 16" barrel is still considered an SBR.

    You can have it removed from the registry if you change your mind.

    No, I don't own any SBR's. If I did, I'd get guidance from ATF before I travelled. And I'd keep the letter with my copy of the stamp. Or I'd build a pistol lower and take that along instead.
    I can not argue with any of this.

    I will repeat what I originally stated. If you remove an SBR upper from an AR and replace it with a 16" or longer barrel. You will not be holding an SBR in your hands.

    Now, if you decide to take that "rifle" out of your house to say, the range maybe, and you bring along you SBR upper. That engraved rifle would still be considered, in the eyes of the law, an SBR. Leave the SBR upper home, you will merely be transporting a rifle.

    As far as crossing state lines, I would seek guidance from ATF on that one. I'm not into taking stupid chances either.

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    Biggfoot44

    Ultimate Member
    Aug 2, 2009
    32,884
    Mr Ed is partly correct -

    Yes , it remains in the Registry as initially specified, until letter recieved by ATF requesting change due to perment change in specifications, or permanent change to non-SBR (removal) .

    BUT, During a temporary change to non-SBR Rifle , it may be transported interstate w/o a Form 020 .
     

    ironpony

    Member
    MDS Supporter
    Jun 8, 2013
    7,192
    Davidsonville
    Mr Ed is partly correct -

    Yes , it remains in the Registry as initially specified, until letter recieved by ATF requesting change due to perment change in specifications, or permanent change to non-SBR (removal) .

    BUT, During a temporary change to non-SBR Rifle , it may be transported interstate w/o a Form 020 .



    This is what I have always believed from my research during building.
     

    HaveBlue

    HaveBlue
    Dec 4, 2014
    733
    Virginia
    Unfortunately, not exactly correct. For Federal purposes, once an SBR, always an SBR. So if you decide to travel out-of-state, you'd still have to file the ATF paperwork, no matter which upper you put on it.

    It depends on who's asking. From a state law perspective, If the SBR is configured with a 16" (or longer barrel) it is no longer an SBR. I don't see how any engraving of your name on the rifle would be relevant to state or local LEO.

    If it's the ATF asking, this answer MAY apply if you purchased it as or originally built it as a pistol.

    "Assuming that the firearm was originally a pistol, the resulting firearm, with an attached shoulder stock, is not an NFA firearm if it has a barrel of 16 inches or more in length. Pursuant to ATF Ruling 2011-4, such rifle may later be unassembled and again configured as a pistol. Such configuration would not be considered a “weapon made from a rifle” as defined by 26 U.S.C. § 5845(a)(4)."

    From https://www.atf.gov/firearms/qa/can-i-lawfully-make-pistol-rifle-without-registering-firearm

    The very best way to get your answer is to ask the ATF directly. If you already have a stamped SBR, they know your name anyway. :)

    I am not a lawyer!
    Have Blue
     

    outrider58

    Eats Bacon Raw
    MDS Supporter
    Jul 29, 2014
    49,818
    This thread has gotten my interest, too. I was in a shop a while back and saw what appeared to be an AR pattern firearm with a very short barrel that might have been sold as a pistol, even though it had Magpul style stock and furniture. I didn't ask then, but I sure wish I had now.

    Is there any place we can go to read the actual rules and regs for ourselves? TIA. :thumbsup:

    Is this the gun you were referring to? I came across this the other day...

    https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2018/01/11/reformation-franklin-armory-hacks-nfa-no-sbr-11-5-ar/
     

    DutchV

    Ultimate Member
    Jul 8, 2012
    4,703

    outrider58

    Eats Bacon Raw
    MDS Supporter
    Jul 29, 2014
    49,818
    Still waiting to see how those shoot. It's got "straight cut lands and grooves" which technically isn't rifling, but I bet it isn't that great either. Maybe okay for third world regime change ("Mr Mayor, you've lost the election") but not sure beyond that.
    Yeah. Not an ideal tool. But this is coming from a guy with several SBRs.

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