Sirex
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I like his torture test videos. Now, I take them with a grain of salt, as they are more entertainment, but worth watching. He tested the Black Arms Tactical (failed), Citadel Boss (failed), and the Maverick 88 (passed).
Benelli M4 clones. (Turknelli M4)
- Thread starter Slimjim
- Start date
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I like his torture test videos. Now, I take them with a grain of salt, as they are more entertainment, but worth watching. He tested the Black Arms Tactical (failed), Citadel Boss (failed), and the Maverick 88 (passed).
Slimjim
Ultimate Member
- Mar 6, 2007
- 3,074
Hey guys, came back to check this thread again, and after seeing the TFB TV video on his turknelli, i wanted to make a video where I show how well my Aksa runs
Turknelli M4 Ammo test (Aksa S4)
Thanks for watching.
Sirex
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Yeah, I think the Turk guns are hit or miss. People have have problems with the SDS Duo (M3) shotgun too, but my Turknelli M3 (Tec 12) has run flawless for years. I was going to sell it to try to buy a 1301, but decided just to keep it since it runs fine.
I just got my Turknelli this past weekend. I've been scouring the interwebs to determine if my own 3D Printed Handguard would be 992r compliant. It would be 100% manufactured in the U.S. so I don't see why it wouldn't be compliant. Then I could just buy DMW Tube Kit and Follower to get me to the three parts needed. My total upgrade cost would be $129.95
I really like the Tac-12 collapsible stock, but it's not 922r, which means I'd have to find one more part to replace. The benelliparts trigger kit and the A&S trigger housing are both 922r, but they are both $229 so that's too expensive. So I've got to find a cheaper option if I want the collapsible stock.
One option I was exploring was possibly buying the Carlson Muzzle Brake for $111. It's made in the USA, but I've never seen anyone cite using a muzzle brake to meet 922r. So, it's got me wondering if it's legal. According to the law text, muzzle attachments are listed as 922r parts. To use the Carlson brake, I would be removing the choke tube which is foreign and replacing it with the brake. This right now seems like a legal gray area.
The second outlier option is this: Buy the Tac-12 stock, but do not use the pistol grip. I would 3D print my own. So I would be technically trading a foreign grip for a U.S. made (printed) part to get me to the four parts needed. This approach hinges on whether 3D printing my own parts is compliant with 922r. Thoughts??
I really like the Tac-12 collapsible stock, but it's not 922r, which means I'd have to find one more part to replace. The benelliparts trigger kit and the A&S trigger housing are both 922r, but they are both $229 so that's too expensive. So I've got to find a cheaper option if I want the collapsible stock.
One option I was exploring was possibly buying the Carlson Muzzle Brake for $111. It's made in the USA, but I've never seen anyone cite using a muzzle brake to meet 922r. So, it's got me wondering if it's legal. According to the law text, muzzle attachments are listed as 922r parts. To use the Carlson brake, I would be removing the choke tube which is foreign and replacing it with the brake. This right now seems like a legal gray area.
The second outlier option is this: Buy the Tac-12 stock, but do not use the pistol grip. I would 3D print my own. So I would be technically trading a foreign grip for a U.S. made (printed) part to get me to the four parts needed. This approach hinges on whether 3D printing my own parts is compliant with 922r. Thoughts??
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Squaregrouper
Kragaphile
I have added the "Speedbar" to my Turknelli and no other modifications.
It is a very fun toy that has had zero hiccups.
It is a very fun toy that has had zero hiccups.
I found those online at Dave’s Metal Works too.
I was reading online and somebody has created a 3D printed enlarged button. All you do is drill and tap an M3 hole into the existing button and attach the new larger release tab. I may do this first and see how I like it.
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Is the 3D printed handguard on Thingiverse?
I haven’t looked I was planning on copying the FAB Defense polymer handguard.
It may take me a few prototype tries to get it right but I think I could create something similar and print it out if carbon fiber reinforced polycarbonate.
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Nice, the issue I see is it will require a lot of support even if you cut it in half like that appears to be. I’ve never been able to get supports off clean enough to be presentable without post processing.I haven’t looked I was planning on copying the FAB Defense polymer handguard.
It may take me a few prototype tries to get it right but I think I could create something similar and print it out if carbon fiber reinforced polycarbonate.
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What printer are you using to get to those temps and I’m assuming a hardened nozzle? I’ve had good luck with my enclosed MK3S clone with ASA and ABS but it still warps on larger parts. I haven’t ventured into anything real exotic like PC or nylon.
Looking at CarbonX (which is $$$ btw!), they recommend 280-310 nozzle temp which I can achieve. Bed temp is recommended to be 110-120 which might be tough for me, I can get to 100 but 120 is probably pushing it and even 100 might not be an even heat. They also recommend soluble supports which would be ideal here but my printer isn’t set up for that (and going down this rabbit hole will not end well for my wallet).
My plan would be to print the parts vertically and I wouldn’t print the rail on the top I would actually use a small section of aluminum rail and attach with with some sort of embedded nuts.
I know the FAB design has a rail on the bottom but I would probably not include that detail as I would prefer to just have a more ergonomic grip in that area.
I ran a box of target loads through my Turk when I first got it. I had 2 failure to eject but I really think I need to run 50 more rounds through to really see if this is an issue.
I broke the gun down last week and after looking at all of the possible paths I decided to just go ahead and replace the trigger, hammer and Disconnector and Follower with US parts. That covers me for the 922r requirements. It’s a little more expensive this way but I really didn’t like the look of the trigger and FCG after breaking it down. I purchased all of the FCG springs and the hammer plunger cap too. Those parts came in and I wanted to get to work.
Here is a pick comparing the US made Benelli trigger with the Turkish. Look closely how the disconnector is held into the trigger on the Turkish design.
All of the Benelli OEM springs appear to be wound differently, with slightly different gauge wire. The Hammer spring is noticeably stiffer. The OEM carrier spring is also stiffer. The OEM disconnector spring does not sit against the disconnector directly but has a small stainless steel plunger that it rest against. I guess this keeps the disconnector spring from maybe slipping out, and there is not such method to hold the turkish spring in place.
Here is the finished assembly.
I also replaced the Extractor and spring. Here is a good photo comparing the Benelli (Left) from the Turkish one (Right). The OEM extractor appears to be forged? The claw is much sharper and shaped with a slight backwards angle where as the Tuskish extractor the back face of the claw is slightly rounded.
In replaced the Firing Pin and spring and pin too. That $40 but there is a clear difference between the two. Both pins are the exact same length but the OEM pin has about 1/16” longer tip than the Turkish pin. The spring seems to have the same force but it is made with much thicker wire but fewer coils than the Turkish spring.
Aside from cleaning and deburring any crappy looking edges, I on the bolt, I found some heavy tool marks on the inside of the receiver along the bolt rails, I lapped those smooth. Also the tail of the bolt link which depresses the plunger on the recoil spring was very sharp. I could see it was cutting into the plunger. In just deburred and rounded the end slightly.
Maybe I’ll get this thing all back together and test it out again on Sunday.
Now I can buy the cheaper 2 round extender and whatever stock I want when I get to it.
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I broke the gun down last week and after looking at all of the possible paths I decided to just go ahead and replace the trigger, hammer and Disconnector and Follower with US parts. That covers me for the 922r requirements. It’s a little more expensive this way but I really didn’t like the look of the trigger and FCG after breaking it down. I purchased all of the FCG springs and the hammer plunger cap too. Those parts came in and I wanted to get to work.
Here is a pick comparing the US made Benelli trigger with the Turkish. Look closely how the disconnector is held into the trigger on the Turkish design.
All of the Benelli OEM springs appear to be wound differently, with slightly different gauge wire. The Hammer spring is noticeably stiffer. The OEM carrier spring is also stiffer. The OEM disconnector spring does not sit against the disconnector directly but has a small stainless steel plunger that it rest against. I guess this keeps the disconnector spring from maybe slipping out, and there is not such method to hold the turkish spring in place.
Here is the finished assembly.
I also replaced the Extractor and spring. Here is a good photo comparing the Benelli (Left) from the Turkish one (Right). The OEM extractor appears to be forged? The claw is much sharper and shaped with a slight backwards angle where as the Tuskish extractor the back face of the claw is slightly rounded.
In replaced the Firing Pin and spring and pin too. That $40 but there is a clear difference between the two. Both pins are the exact same length but the OEM pin has about 1/16” longer tip than the Turkish pin. The spring seems to have the same force but it is made with much thicker wire but fewer coils than the Turkish spring.
Aside from cleaning and deburring any crappy looking edges, I on the bolt, I found some heavy tool marks on the inside of the receiver along the bolt rails, I lapped those smooth. Also the tail of the bolt link which depresses the plunger on the recoil spring was very sharp. I could see it was cutting into the plunger. In just deburred and rounded the end slightly.
Maybe I’ll get this thing all back together and test it out again on Sunday.
Now I can buy the cheaper 2 round extender and whatever stock I want when I get to it.
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One more easy thing to check is the gas pistons. They are really easy check of once you have the handguards off.
Just unscrew the gas plug. Insert a 1/8 punch through two of the holes to loosen the threads. Mine were just snug. Once you break it free it unthreads by hand. The spring is contained inside so you don’t have worry about any springs flying across the room.
Push the Gas Piston out from the back.
I could feel some grinding on the left side piston while the right side felt pretty smooth. I noticed quite a few small metal shavings mixed in with the grease.
I just sprayed out the tube with some Ballistol and ran a nylon brush through then then a cloth. Clean off the piston and remove any debris. I wiped a thin film of hi temp grease and then dipped the piston in Mobil-1 before reinserting. Then worked the piston back and forth a few times before reassembling the gas block assembly. Last step was to just retighten the block, again using a 1/8 punch through the holes.
I’m not getting out to the range today as planned so hopefully I’ll be able to test in a few weeks. I did order an adjustable stock M4 stock online, maybe it will arrive before then.
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Just unscrew the gas plug. Insert a 1/8 punch through two of the holes to loosen the threads. Mine were just snug. Once you break it free it unthreads by hand. The spring is contained inside so you don’t have worry about any springs flying across the room.
Push the Gas Piston out from the back.
I could feel some grinding on the left side piston while the right side felt pretty smooth. I noticed quite a few small metal shavings mixed in with the grease.
I just sprayed out the tube with some Ballistol and ran a nylon brush through then then a cloth. Clean off the piston and remove any debris. I wiped a thin film of hi temp grease and then dipped the piston in Mobil-1 before reinserting. Then worked the piston back and forth a few times before reassembling the gas block assembly. Last step was to just retighten the block, again using a 1/8 punch through the holes.
I’m not getting out to the range today as planned so hopefully I’ll be able to test in a few weeks. I did order an adjustable stock M4 stock online, maybe it will arrive before then.
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I designed a shell holder in Fusion 360 and printed out a prototype last night. It came out pretty good. I think I may redesign it in two pieces. Right now I have to slip it on the rail from the front which requires me to remove the barrel.
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Russ D
Ultimate Member
Looks great. Can’t wait to see the range report.
Last upgrade. Delta Mike Collapsible Stock.
Ordered this almost 4 wks ago and it shipped from New Zealand. I emailed them because it apparently was lost in transit. Well it showed up while I was away.
In hindsight the Panzer Arms stock that Atlantic Just posted is very similar but 1/4 the cost. https://www.mdshooters.com/threads/panzer-arms-m4-tactical-collapsing-stock.269846/
I would have ordered the Panzer if I could have found one anywhere.
Just note the Panzer and Delta Mike are both manufactured overseas, so you will need 4 other US made 922R parts before you can use either one with the two round tube extension.
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Ordered this almost 4 wks ago and it shipped from New Zealand. I emailed them because it apparently was lost in transit. Well it showed up while I was away.
In hindsight the Panzer Arms stock that Atlantic Just posted is very similar but 1/4 the cost. https://www.mdshooters.com/threads/panzer-arms-m4-tactical-collapsing-stock.269846/
I would have ordered the Panzer if I could have found one anywhere.
Just note the Panzer and Delta Mike are both manufactured overseas, so you will need 4 other US made 922R parts before you can use either one with the two round tube extension.
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All of these upgrades... Is it equal to the cost of a base model m4 yet?Last upgrade. Delta Mike Collapsible Stock.
Ordered this almost 4 wks ago and it shipped from New Zealand. I emailed them because it apparently was lost in transit. Well it showed up while I was away.
In hindsight the Panzer Arms stock that Atlantic Just posted is very similar but 1/4 the cost. https://www.mdshooters.com/threads/panzer-arms-m4-tactical-collapsing-stock.269846/
I would have ordered the Panzer if I could have found one anywhere.
Just note the Panzer and Delta Mike are both manufactured overseas, so you will need 4 other US made 922R parts before you can use either one with the two round tube extension.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
fishkenstein
Member
Question for @ToolAA or whoever is building a Black Aces M4 clone. Can someone PLEASE confirm with me if the clone receiver have the same recoil buffer tube thread like the original BM4. I called Black Aces, the tech said it "should" take original BM4 recoil buffer tube. The Black Aces clone I have come with rifle stock, the buffer tube is smooth and does not have slotted tube. so I will need to install a new BM4 recoil buffer tube in-order for me to install the pistol grip stock. The thread size look very close but seem different. Can someone tell me if they have experience of installing an original BM4 recoil buffer tube on a M4 Clone.
Thank you!
Thank you!
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I do not have an original M4 to compare, but I will say this, every single part I've replaced on the Black Aces has been a 100% fit so far.
A quick google.fu search turned up this discussion, which reports the thread size as M21x1. I'll try to take a look tomorrow after work and see if I can measure my old Black Aces recoil tube thread size. If it's close, then I would be it's a match. Are you trying to purchase an OEM Benelli Collapsible stock and pistol grip? If so why not just go with the cheaper clone options. This is the one I got, and it fits perfect.
fishkenstein
Member
Thanks @ToolAA! the Black Aces pros S4 I got come with a fixed rifle stock (non pistol grip) It has a Benelli M2 styles recoil buffer tube, it is stright smooth tube without any slot. I have heard the newer m4 clone with pistol grip version does come with the slotted tube. So it will fit OEM Collapsible stock? Does your Turknelli Collapsible buttstock kit come with its own recoil tube? Do you just transfer the spring and plug to new tube? If it does, it will solve my problem.
