suppressor questions and opinions need

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  • outrider58

    Eats Bacon Raw
    MDS Supporter
    Jul 29, 2014
    49,818
    NASA thinks a supersonic passenger jet that nearly eliminates the sonic boom can be made with the correct shape. Why not boolits?

    You're the doctor...

    :D
     

    lazarus

    Ultimate Member
    Jun 23, 2015
    13,680
    no. A sonic crack is a sonic crack.

    Yes, but a smaller object generates a smaller supersonic bow shock. IE supersonic crack. Listen to a suppressed bullet. Now listen to a fighter jet punch by at great than Mach 1 at a similar distance. They do not make the same amount of sound.

    It is more determined by the diameter of the bullet than the length of the bullet. And the ogive influences it as well. I don’t know enough on supersonic aerodynamics of bullets to tell you what the ideal shape would be. However, I’d guess a spitzer boat tailed bullet would likely produce a quieter crack then a round nose flat base bullet.

    For the difference, damned if I know. It might be all of 1dB.

    For diameter, sort of the same. A .308 has roughly 58% more frontal surface area than a .224. Id guess that would lead to roughly a 58% increase in the crack also. That’s about 2dB by the way.

    It takes about 6dB for there to be a perceptible doubling in volume to the human ear (it’s actually 4x difference in sound energy, but our ears don’t work that way) and a lot of people can’t notice a difference as small as 2dB from one sound to the next.

    Faster projectiles will also make a louder crack.

    But it might take a .308 moving at 2800fps, if the gas volume is well controlled from uncorking, to sound twice a loud to the ear like a .224 moving at 1200fps.

    That’s horribly unscientific approximation.

    But hell, take a 22lr out and a 300BO, both suppressed. Both bolt guns so there is no action noise. Fire a round from both that is subsonic. Now fire a round from both that is barely supersonic (like 1200fps). The crack from the 22lr is noticeably quieter than the 300BO supersonic crack. The supersonic 22lr is certainly louder than the subsonic 300BO though.
     

    lazarus

    Ultimate Member
    Jun 23, 2015
    13,680
    Suppress it all. In rimfire, there is size/weight, FRP and cleaning/maintenence to consider. I clean cans with an ultrasonic, so Aluminum baffles are out IMO, they suck to clean, but can cut weight in 1/2 compared to steel. Have a Mask and love it, hard to find a better all around can, suppresses any barrel length well, cleans up easy, quiet, goot tone and little FRP. I do also have a Rugged Oculus, and like it also, it is modular and can be a 3" 4oz can or a 5" 6oz can depending if you add the extended section. It's awesome as it can be really short/light and hearing safe(but loud) on a handgun, but really excels on rifles where it sounds really good while just adding all of 2.5" to the length. You can get more cans, but if you snug them up well, and check every so often you can swap cans between rimfire platforms without much of an issue.

    For rifle calibers, bolt actions are awesome, and can easily be hearing safe with supersonic ammo. Semi autos end up being a balance between the noise of the action and gas venting from the piston/BCG, the muzzle noise, and excess gas blowing back into the action. The more backpressure/muzzle suppression, the worse the port pop, and generally the larger the suppressor. This is where K cans or short low backpressure cans like the YHM turbo K, Sandman K or a few others are awesome, might only add 4" or so to the barrel length, can be hearing safe on a bolt action, and while the muzzle suppression can be substantial they usually have minimal port pop and backpressure. You can add adjustible gas blocks to reduce gas, some cans like OSS trade mediocre suppression for really low backpressure, and there are things like charging handles and gas deflectors that can cut down on gas to the face. Some newer modular designs like the Omega 36M(have one in NFA jail), Rugged radiant & micro30 like the Oculus rimfire can can be run as a 5" long "K" can great for semi-s or hunting or a full 7"-ish can for hearing safe use at the range. The thing with rifle cans is that they need to be torqued on with direct thread, or they come loose quickly, or you can use a QD/taper mount muzzle device, but they are proprietary, and while some can be swapped between manufacturers you usually have to pick a mounting system and stick with it to use a can with a particular host. I like the Griffin taper mount, there are a ton of brakes, comps and flash hiders, they make adapters that work with 3rd party cans, the system is reliable, adds minimal length/weight and is pretty simple.

    Definite torqued on for direct thread? I am not aware of any manufacturer that says you should use a wrench. In fact I think they all say not to. I’ve yet to have my rimfire or 30 cal can come loose. I do reach out there every magazine or three just to check, but I’ve never had one work loose.

    IMHO you should absolutely go adjustable gas block on AR pattern rifles if suppressing. Maybe even if you aren’t. Most are over gassed without a suppressor. I know all of mine were. Hell, I had to get an AGB to get my AR-10 running right. But with it dialed down to the minimum that just barely has it running 100% reliably running a couple types of steel cased .308 ammo in the middle of winter, slapping my suppressor on means even with M80 ball and hot heavy .308 rounds gas blow back isn’t bad at all. I could definitely turn the gas down further, but it runs more like a normally gassed ar-15. With the gas turned down, steel cased ammo tends to land on the bench and not even roll off. Brass cased ammo, especially hotter stuff sometimes dribbles off the bench so I put my rifle case right there and that stops it from falling off the table.

    Slap my suppressor on and it’ll eject with enough authority that none will stay on the bench without my open rifle case there to catch them. And it does catch the vast majority without them having enough energy to go bouncing away.

    I stick the can on one of my AR-15s (none have AGB right now, though I need to fixed that) and the AR15 behaves like that without the can. Stick the can on and I am in danger of hitting people with injurious force if they are close by and the gas is unpleasant (it isn’t noticeable on my AR-10. That I can notice more gas coming out of the ejection port when it locks the bolt back than there is on one of my ARs with no can (even without an AGB).
     

    leomort

    Active Member
    Jul 31, 2020
    199
    What are the typical wait times for getting your suppressor? I've heard 9-12months as good guideline.
     

    woodline

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Jan 8, 2017
    1,947
    What are the typical wait times for getting your suppressor? I've heard 9-12months as good guideline.
    I would suggest waiting for a month or two. ATF is supposed to be bringing the eForm4 process online in a few days. There’s going to be an initial traffic jam so expect probably 6-8 months next year, but by 2023 their goal is 30 days. So probably 2025 based on how bad their usual timelines are, but the system will absolutely be faster once they get it up and running.

    Point being, don’t do a paper form 4 today. Give it a little bit for the process to get up and running. If your dealer is NFA savvy they will understand all of this already and have plans for implementation. Just giving you a heads up in case you are planning on using a mom and pop and they try to tell you to get the paper form 4 process started immediately.
     

    smdub

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Nov 14, 2012
    4,644
    MoCo
    one in the hand...
    If you are ready to buy today, do the paper form. There is ZERO guarantee the online will be ready soon.
     

    leomort

    Active Member
    Jul 31, 2020
    199
    fbi_surveillance_van,

    Wow! That would be great if the eForm4 speeds up the process that quickly! But yeah, probably 2025 before we see the results!


    I want to use my CZ 452 American 22lr in MARS events. It has 22" barrel, I believe. Not sure if suppressor are allowed in the match or if I'd want to go that route with the original barrel already that long plus I'd still have to have it thread. But I think the bolt action would be the most interesting to shoot suppressed.

    I have Ruger 10/22 with thread barrel and have Ruger IV Target Stainless 5.5" threaded barrel coming in soon. That MkIV target is going to be heavy handgun so not sure if the suppressor will make the handgun unwieldy? Not sure what competition sports are available for 22lr handguns but would like to try getting involved with that handgun, if possible.
     

    RRomig

    Ultimate Member
    Industry Partner
    MDS Supporter
    Aug 30, 2021
    1,924
    Burtonsville MD
    What are the typical wait times for getting your suppressor? I've heard 9-12months as good guideline.
    I got one back a month ago that was 9 months from check cashed. Over the last 2 years I’ve seen it climb 3 months. I agree with what was stated above. If your ready do it. No guarantee what the future will bring. I definitely wouldn’t add 2 months to the process. That also assumes that some how the efiles will jump the line. I don’t see anything supporting that thought. Buy now , buy often , good luck!
     

    camo556

    Ultimate Member
    Aug 29, 2021
    2,634
    What are the typical wait times for getting your suppressor? I've heard 9-12months as good guideline.

    9-12 months for paper.

    ??-?? for eForms when they go online (maybe end of month)

    3-4 weeks for a Form 1 DIY (plus time to get it engraved). Forms 1s are eFile, so we are thinking that when Eform 4 goes online the wait time will eventually be very low. My last one took 22 days.
     

    alucard0822

    For great Justice
    Oct 29, 2007
    17,643
    PA
    Definite torqued on for direct thread? I am not aware of any manufacturer that says you should use a wrench. In fact I think they all say not to. I’ve yet to have my rimfire or 30 cal can come loose. I do reach out there every magazine or three just to check, but I’ve never had one work loose.

    IMHO you should absolutely go adjustable gas block on AR pattern rifles if suppressing. Maybe even if you aren’t. Most are over gassed without a suppressor. I know all of mine were. Hell, I had to get an AGB to get my AR-10 running right. But with it dialed down to the minimum that just barely has it running 100% reliably running a couple types of steel cased .308 ammo in the middle of winter, slapping my suppressor on means even with M80 ball and hot heavy .308 rounds gas blow back isn’t bad at all. I could definitely turn the gas down further, but it runs more like a normally gassed ar-15. With the gas turned down, steel cased ammo tends to land on the bench and not even roll off. Brass cased ammo, especially hotter stuff sometimes dribbles off the bench so I put my rifle case right there and that stops it from falling off the table.

    Slap my suppressor on and it’ll eject with enough authority that none will stay on the bench without my open rifle case there to catch them. And it does catch the vast majority without them having enough energy to go bouncing away.

    I stick the can on one of my AR-15s (none have AGB right now, though I need to fixed that) and the AR15 behaves like that without the can. Stick the can on and I am in danger of hitting people with injurious force if they are close by and the gas is unpleasant (it isn’t noticeable on my AR-10. That I can notice more gas coming out of the ejection port when it locks the bolt back than there is on one of my ARs with no can (even without an AGB).

    Griffin has torque specs for their DT rifle cans of 35lb/ft for 1/2" and 45lb/ft for 5/8", think Sico and Rugged were 30, but not all cans have wrench flats or an interface to use a wrench. Usually takes at least 20lb/ft or they come loose frequently, most use a strap wrench and guesstimate. If it's hand tight, it will back off on rifle calibers, 22 cans don't get as hot and don't looses up as quick. Plenty do just hand torque rifle cans but have to check them frequently, sucks on semis where the can stays too hot to touch, and you might not be able to check it.

    AGBs are really nice on most calibers, but can depend on the purpose, barrel and ammo selection. For defensive/tac class use you are best off running heavier buffers, and often can run a 5.56 SBR with modest port and short dwell(carbine gassed 10.5s typically) with H3 buffer and it runs ok with a fixed block. Most all 300BO short barrels run fine with fixed blocks and an H1 buffer. You might be able to close a little gas off with an AG especially in longer barrels , and it will quiet down port pop. In fact I can get my 3 gun stuff with lightweight BCG/buffer to be stupid quiet suppressed being it takes so little gas to run I am only out a couple clicks from closed off. Lighter buffers with less gas generally makes it less reliable outside of a narrow set of conditions though. I generally use a mid weight buffer, H in 300, H2 in 5.56 and H3 in 308(with A5 tube) and set gas to the minumum to run unsuppressed. This way it tends to run OK with or without a can without additional adjustment.
     

    leomort

    Active Member
    Jul 31, 2020
    199
    I did mine at Engagement end of Nov 2021, they took care of whatever they needed. Used my c.c. Everything has been billed to my card. Silencer shop has for confirmation of suppressor which I did.
     

    leomort

    Active Member
    Jul 31, 2020
    199
    Ok, I must have misunderstood. Got an email from Silencer Shop today that ATF has "cashed my check" as of 12/9/21. So the waiting game starts from today.
     

    ST19AG_WGreymon

    Ultimate Member
    Feb 16, 2009
    2,405
    Odenton
    Check the "current ATF wait time" thread, I regularly post updates there. ATF is on mid-February and early-March 2021 submissions. They are knocking both out at the same time it seeems.
     

    leomort

    Active Member
    Jul 31, 2020
    199
    What's peoples opinion about putting different suppressor on different 22lr firearms? For example, would you put a different 22lr suppressor on bolt action vs semi-auto rifle?

    What about 22lr handgun? would you choose different suppressor for it than one you would chose for 22lr rifle?

    I see a lot of people here have several different 22lr suppressor and wonder why? Is it mainly just to try to different brands to see how they compare against each other? If you liked one particular brand would you by the same one again for another 22lr firearm?
     

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