Do officers have a duty to not enforce unconstitutional laws?

bibitor · Nov 19, 2018

TexDefender said:
We are here, that should be all that matters.

It certainly does matter, but it is definitely not all that matters. It also confirms that we're all 'running scared' (of different things perhaps), which is entirely understandable.

"The Lawyers gave, and the Lawyers hath taken away..." I won't be completing that unholy edit of Job, but there are plenty of people who would be happy to. And because I fear my words will get twisted, I want to clarify that last comment is not directed at the police.

IDFInfantry · Nov 19, 2018

Here's a head's up on what's coming down the pike for those interested. It looks like there may be a national red flag law in the works! This is super concerning but this is what's happening at a Federal level currently.

[YT]IKZ3wz6yC3Y[/YT]

Docster · Nov 19, 2018

motorcoachdoug said:
Here is a interesting question. Can Herr Frosh be arrested if he issued a rule that would go against the US Constitution and violate our rights? From what I hear the Sheriff of Alleganny County is like the Harford County Sheriff as well when it comes to 2A rights!

Really? SCOTUS rules on laws found to be unconstitutional frequently. Politicians nationwide have and continue to pass laws that are reversed on unconstitutional basis. Any of them held responsible or go to jail?

TheOriginalMexicanBob · Nov 19, 2018

Frosh as Attorney General, doesn't declare proposed laws as Constitutional or not...he issues legal opinions on whether they're Constitutional or not. It's an important distinction. Judges can decide on Constitutionality...Attorney generals cannot...though they certainly try. Former AG Joe Curran surely tried that.

RoadDawg · Nov 19, 2018

bibitor said:
You are not a Nazi. Other LEO's are not Nazi's. There are no Nazi's because people like my grandfather took care of that crap back in the 40's.

You are a human. Other LEO's are humans. We are all humans (although I find lawyers questionable on that account) and as human we are all capable of some really horrific actions, regardless of occupation.

I completely understand it is not the job of LEO's to craft, enact, or interpret laws, but the enforcement of said laws is their domain. The question of what laws LEO's consider to be unenforceable is valid, and it is just as valid as it is difficult to answer. I cannot know for sure what my opinion on this matter would be if I were a LEO. I may not be able to answer that question myself, but is it so hard to at least admit as much? If you don't know how to answer a simple "I don't know" would at least be honest and direct. The answer of "that's not my job," while true, only deflects the concerns of those asking while the question remains unanswered.

So you are asking someone else to answer a question which you can not answer for yourself?

Seems a bit conflicting. :shrug:

Those demanding answers from LEOs are demanding that the LEOs see the law as they themselves see it. LEOs must weigh many different things when they are faced with these questions on and off the job. LEOs also learn fast to NOT allow someone to pigeon hole them and trap them into giving answers to questions which CAN cause them grief later. So those demanding answers have to realize that they can choose to trust or not to trust. But, demanding answers is not a right to which they are entitled.

RoadDawg · Nov 19, 2018

Docster said:
Really? SCOTUS rules on laws found to be unconstitutional frequently. Politicians nationwide have and continue to pass laws that are reversed on unconstitutional basis. Any of them held responsible or go to jail?

They should face jail time for violation of citizen's rights. At the very least they should be disbarred and/or have certain legal sanctions leveed upon them so they don't do it again.

IDFInfantry · Nov 19, 2018

I wouldn’t be surprised if we start seeing numerous cases like this where someone’s child is accused of saying the word “Gun” in school or maybe draws a picture of a gun and boom authorities show up at your door and confiscate your weapons.

Hear this poor Dad’s story out of New Jersey

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RepublicOfFranklin · Nov 19, 2018

IDFInfantry said:
I wouldn’t be surprised if we start seeing numerous cases like this where someone’s child is accused of saying the word “Gun” in school or maybe draws a picture of a gun and boom authorities show up at your door and confiscate your weapons.

Hear this poor Dad’s story out of New Jersey

[YT]j9eVJ37EOoI[/YT]

It’s stuff like that and a possible nationwide version of this that will set off the powder keg.

I know people want to know who’s on who’s side but honestly I think if/when the time comes where the law is too restrictive to obey things will split the way they do in all civil wars/rebellions. In the American Revolution, certain towns and Justices of the Peace chose to side with the rebellion and others wanted to uphold the law of the crown.

In more recent times, the Yugoslavian split had police departments and the military fracture in multiple ways; it’ll probably go the same way in any more modern breakup like that. Some will enforce confiscation/putting down resistance to it and others will break away and support the people.

Trust who you know you can trust in these matters. I don’t think anyone, LEO, active duty, or regular dude knows exactly what they’ll do until the business hits the fan.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

bibitor · Nov 19, 2018

RoadDawg said:
So you are asking someone else to answer a question which you can not answer for yourself?

Seems a bit conflicting.

Those demanding answers from LEOs are demanding that the LEOs see the law as they themselves see it. LEOs must weigh many different things when they are faced with these questions on and off the job. LEOs also learn fast to NOT allow someone to pigeon hole them and trap them into giving answers to questions which CAN cause them grief later. So those demanding answers have to realize that they can choose to trust or not to trust. But, demanding answers is not a right to which they are entitled.

I don't see where I demanded anything. My questions may make you uncomfortable, you may find them objectionable, you are welcome to disagree with me on any number of issues, but please do not misrepresent what I wrote.

fred2207 · Nov 19, 2018

East2West said:
There are no Nazis in America, Trump deported the last one.

How about that cluster F$%K in Charlottesville.. The goose stepping sig hile was ever present and the NAZI flag was flying high... :sad20:

TheBert · Nov 19, 2018

RoadDawg said:
So you are asking someone else to answer a question which you can not answer for yourself?

Seems a bit conflicting.

Those demanding answers from LEOs are demanding that the LEOs see the law as they themselves see it. LEOs must weigh many different things when they are faced with these questions on and off the job. LEOs also learn fast to NOT allow someone to pigeon hole them and trap them into giving answers to questions which CAN cause them grief later. So those demanding answers have to realize that they can choose to trust or not to trust. But, demanding answers is not a right to which they are entitled.

No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

East2West · Nov 19, 2018

fred2207 said:
How about that cluster F$%K in Charlottesville.. The goose stepping sig hile was ever present and the NAZI flag was flying high...

Those are neo-nazis, not National Socialists.

Boondock Saint · Nov 19, 2018

This thread has run seven pages. Have we finally sainted all LEOs, or have we branded them all jackbooted thugs? It's tough to keep up sometimes.

fred2207 · Nov 19, 2018

East2West said:
Those are neo-nazis, not National Socialists.

Neo or NS, split the hairs...

They both have same/similar goals. I thought the flaming torch of death march was hilarious, although quite sinister... Me being about half Jewish an all.

RoadDawg · Nov 19, 2018

RoadDawg said:
So you are asking someone else to answer a question which you can not answer for yourself?

Seems a bit conflicting.

Those demanding answers from LEOs are demanding that the LEOs see the law as they themselves see it. LEOs must weigh many different things when they are faced with these questions on and off the job. LEOs also learn fast to NOT allow someone to pigeon hole them and trap them into giving answers to questions which CAN cause them grief later. So those demanding answers have to realize that they can choose to trust or not to trust. But, demanding answers is not a right to which they are entitled.

bibitor said:
I don't see where I demanded anything. My questions may make you uncomfortable, you may find them objectionable, you are welcome to disagree with me on any number of issues, but please do not misrepresent what I wrote.

WHOA...

Read it again. I clearly made the distinction between “you” “ASKING” and “those demanding”.

I never accused you of demanding shit.

RoadDawg · Nov 19, 2018

TheBert said:
No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

So you can cut and paste.

WTH does that have to do with my comments which you quoted? Do you plan on getting a Grand Jury to ask the LEOs what they’d do?

Do officers have a duty to not enforce unconstitutional laws?

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