So what if Hogan wins a Second term?

Not_an_outlaw · May 10, 2018

With Hogan in office, it gives the real republicans mixed messages. They may try to appease him, and by doing that, the Republicans have even less power. If there was a democrat in office, the Republicans could make a clear unified front. They could go "all in" against the Democratic machine. Now, they're just a wishy washy bunch of legislatures without a compass. So, a Democrat in office may actually be better as compared to Hogan. That democrat would be exposed, where with Hogan there is fear to expose him for what he is - RINO. Basically, he dilutes what power the Republicans may have.

fidelity · May 10, 2018

Jim12 said:
That sounds nice in theory but it's a loser in reality.

Is it? Depends.

I think when person A asks person B (insert pissed off gun rights advocate) who you would pick for Governor instead of Hogan, the pissed off gun rights advocate wonders at what point do Hogan's actions become too much for person A.

Perhaps person A has a sliding scale, views themselves as a pragmatist, and there is no point at which they would not support Hogan as long as it can be argued that a potential Democratic Party alternative is worse for gun rights. Some people (like person B) might not have a sliding scale and Hogan lost their vote through his own actions.

It's true that Hogan came into office saying that he supported O'Malley's FSA 2013 gun restriction package. It's also true that Hogan has shunned gun rights groups since taking office. I'm not sure if any past state Republican Party leaders have. Hogan made the composition of the HPRB more favorable to gun owners, assisting a small fraction in the state. He didn't effect a change in the MDSP to alter their G&S standard that would have helped many more. And when his moment came to stop further gun control legislation in MD, he asked where he could sign. He didn't opt to veto when it might stick. He didn't opt to let it pass without his signature. He instead opted for the photo opportunity with gun controllers. For many gun owners, this was enough. He had gone further than O'Malley. For others, they sing his praises here, darkly whispering, it could be worse.

I also wonder what would be too much for people. If they want to argue that they want Hogan because he leans Republican on other issues, I think this is an honest argument. If they argue that it will be worse on gun rights otherwise, one could argue that they're deluding themselves or that there is a strategic perspective that they don't accept or possibly realize - that such thinking over time has made things worse.

If one has a sliding scale on gun rights, then Hogan only needs to promise to be a few percent better on gun rights than his opponent to lock in the vote of the sliding scale voter (I'm simplifying, because most sliding scale voters will consider more than gun rights in voting for a Governor). Hypothetically, Hogan could be 80% gun controller, and as long as his opponent was more, this presents an obvious choice for the sliding scale voter. However this leads to a race for more gun control over time, as it favors incrementalism. By today's standards, Erlich might have been a 30% gun controller. Now many gun owners view the far more restrictive Hogan as acceptable. We've accepted a change in standards, and the next Republican candidate for Governor can move to 90% gun controller, because he/she just needs to be a little less restrictive than the Democratic candidate. It's a race to the bottom.

Would it be better to have a Governor in office that wants to overreach and ban all civilian ownership of rifles in MD or a Republican that says you can keep your bolt and pump action rifles? Maybe the complete banner would fail because his/her efforts were too extreme, but a Democratic legislature with a Republican Governor like Hogan might push through the partial long gun ban because it had a shot. And some here probably would defend Hogan for it.

Hogan has already calculated that he can win without gun rights voters support. His actions indicate that he doesn't care a whit about gun rights. I think he'll win the election based on the state of the Maryland economy, his less taxes than Democrats policy, and being anti-Trump. At this point, while I will vote on other issues and for pro gun rights politicians running for other offices, I'm not planning on pulling the lever for Hogan. His actions have lost my support, and he's determined that he doesn't need it.

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danb · May 10, 2018

With Kamenetz unfortunate and sudden death, that means the next governor will be Madaleno. You guys will be begging for O'Malley back. :lol:

CrazySanMan · May 10, 2018

fidelity said:
For many gun owners, this was enough. He had gone further than O'Malley. For others, they sing his praises here, darkly whispering, it could be worse.

...the next Republican candidate for Governor can move to 90% gun controller, because he/she just needs to be a little less restrictive than the Democratic candidate. It's a race to the bottom.

...but a Democratic legislature with a Republican Governor like Hogan might push through the partial long gun ban because it had a shot. And some here probably would defend Hogan for it.

Hogan has already calculated that he can win without gun rights voters support. His actions indicate that he doesn't care a whit about gun rights.

TexDefender · May 10, 2018

I'm still voting for Hogan, better than any Leftist. Until such time as someone can prove beyond a shadow of doubt there is a better candidate that has a serious shot at winning the election.

Schipperke · May 10, 2018

TexDefender said:
I'm still voting for Hogan, better than any Leftist. Until such time as someone can prove beyond a shadow of doubt there is a better candidate that has a serious shot at winning the election.

That. Anyone with skin in the game as an entrepreneur, not proactively punching Hogan's box, I take has quick exit plans to a border state. Even people who's entire life revolves exclusively around 2A (which would make me a mental case) actually believes a Democrat like Baker etc. wouldn't be proactively leading a gun control charge , is just acting a bit scorned at the moment. Hogan has signed nothing that even compares to FSA2013, get a grip. Democrats:Republic votes in primaries are 2:1 in Maryland. If you live in this state, just get over it. MoCo, PG, Charles and Baltimore run the state with Howard and AA now leaning left as well. Go to MSAR, there is a line out the door on weekends, lot of shooters. Nine out of ten there probably voted for Hillary. The overall gun owner percentage in our state is very low, perhaps 20% of households. Now take 90% of that number who don't even follow anything of gun laws. I have no idea where people in Maryland believe gun rights voters have any pull.

MoCo, Hillary 75% , PG 88%.. Those are huge super majorities.

CrazySanMan · May 10, 2018

Schipperke said:
That. Anyone with skin in the game as an entrepreneur, not proactively punching Hogan's box, I take has quick exit plans to a border state. Even people who's entire life revolves exclusively around 2A (which would make me a mental case) actually believes a Democrat like Baker etc. wouldn't be proactively leading a gun control charge , is just acting a bit scorned at the moment. Hogan has signed nothing that even compares to FSA2013, get a grip. Democrats:Republic votes in primaries are 2:1 in Maryland. If you live in this state, just get over it. MoCo, PG, Charles and Baltimore run the state with Howard and AA now leaning left as well. Go to MSAR, there is a line out the door on weekends, lot of shooters. Nine out of ten there probably voted for Hillary. The overall gun owner percentage in our state is very low, perhaps 20% of households. Now take 90% of that number who don't even follow anything of gun laws. I have no idea where people in Maryland believe gun rights voters have any pull.

MoCo, Hillary 75% , PG 88%.. Those are huge super majorities.

You can't see the forest because of the trees. You have an election-by-election view of the state. You need to take a step back and see the big picture. Think years ahead, not just the next ballot. Maryland is heavily democrat and the "republican" candidates offered as alternatives are all RINOs. You need to break that cycle and get better republican candidates. If you keep choosing the lesser of two evils that is all you will ever get - two turd sandwiches and you have to eat one. The only way to get better candidates is to reject the RINOs that are offered and write in a solid conservative. Get several thousand registered republicans to write in Ronald Regan or Thomas Jefferson or something like that to send a message to the MDGOP that you won't bite the turd sandwich they are offering.

Or you can keep your blinders on and continue going election by election, deciding which candidate sucks the least and voting for that one. The only way to enact change is to reject the status quo, not go along with it.

TexDefender · May 10, 2018

CrazySanMan said:
You can't see the forest because of the trees. You have an election-by-election view of the state. You need to take a step back and see the big picture. Think years ahead, not just the next ballot. Maryland is heavily democrat and the "republican" candidates offered as alternatives are all RINOs. You need to break that cycle and get better republican candidates. If you keep choosing the lesser of two evils that is all you will ever get - two turd sandwiches and you have to eat one. The only way to get better candidates is to reject the RINOs that are offered and write in a solid conservative. Get several thousand registered republicans to write in Ronald Regan or Thomas Jefferson or something like that to send a message to the MDGOP that you won't bite the turd sandwich they are offering.

Or you can keep your blinders on and continue going election by election, deciding which candidate sucks the least and voting for that one. The only way to enact change is to reject the status quo, not go along with it.

I disagree. To vote for a Lefty will expedite the 2A rights erosion. Until someone from this forum, that has a brand name recognition and a serious chance to win. You simply expedite the process, it didn't become this way overnight, it's not going to change overnight.

Blacksmith101 · May 10, 2018

CrazySanMan said:
You can't see the forest because of the trees. You have an election-by-election view of the state. You need to take a step back and see the big picture. Think years ahead, not just the next ballot. Maryland is heavily democrat and the "republican" candidates offered as alternatives are all RINOs. You need to break that cycle and get better republican candidates. If you keep choosing the lesser of two evils that is all you will ever get - two turd sandwiches and you have to eat one. The only way to get better candidates is to reject the RINOs that are offered and write in a solid conservative. Get several thousand registered republicans to write in Ronald Regan or Thomas Jefferson or something like that to send a message to the MDGOP that you won't bite the turd sandwich they are offering.

Or you can keep your blinders on and continue going election by election, deciding which candidate sucks the least and voting for that one. The only way to enact change is to reject the status quo, not go along with it.

Why being a DINO and voting in the Democratic primary is so important. Eliminate the far left in the primaries and slowly the the pendulum can start to swing the other way.

44man · May 10, 2018

Fat fingers small phone

44man · May 10, 2018

fidelity said:
Is it? Depends.

I think when person A asks person B (insert pissed off gun rights advocate) who you would pick for Governor instead of Hogan, the pissed off gun rights advocate wonders at what point do Hogan's actions become too much for person A.

Perhaps person A has a sliding scale, views themselves as a pragmatist, and there is no point at which they would not support Hogan as long as it can be argued that a potential Democratic Party alternative is worse for gun rights. Some people (like person B) might not have a sliding scale and Hogan lost their vote through his own actions.

It's true that Hogan came into office saying that he supported O'Malley's FSA 2013 gun restriction package. It's also true that Hogan has shunned gun rights groups since taking office. I'm not sure if any past state Republican Party leaders have. Hogan made the composition of the HPRB more favorable to gun owners, assisting a small fraction in the state. He didn't effect a change in the MDSP to alter their G&S standard that would have helped many more. And when his moment came to stop further gun control legislation in MD, he asked where he could sign. He didn't opt to veto when it might stick. He didn't opt to let it pass without his signature. He instead opted for the photo opportunity with gun controllers. For many gun owners, this was enough. He had gone further than O'Malley. For others, they sing his praises here, darkly whispering, it could be worse.

I also wonder what would be too much for people. If they want to argue that they want Hogan because he leans Republican on other issues, I think this is an honest argument. If they argue that it will be worse on gun rights otherwise, one could argue that they're deluding themselves or that there is a strategic perspective that they don't accept or possibly realize - that such thinking over time has made things worse.

If one has a sliding scale on gun rights, then Hogan only needs to promise to be a few percent better on gun rights than his opponent to lock in the vote of the sliding scale voter (I'm simplifying, because most sliding scale voters will consider more than gun rights in voting for a Governor). Hypothetically, Hogan could be 80% gun controller, and as long as his opponent was more, this presents an obvious choice for the sliding scale voter. However this leads to a race for more gun control over time, as it favors incrementalism. By today's standards, Erlich might have been a 30% gun controller. Now many gun owners view the far more restrictive Hogan as acceptable. We've accepted a change in standards, and the next Republican candidate for Governor can move to 90% gun controller, because he/she just needs to be a little less restrictive than the Democratic candidate. It's a race to the bottom.

Would it be better to have a Governor in office that wants to overreach and ban all civilian ownership of rifles in MD or a Republican that says you can keep your bolt and pump action rifles? Maybe the complete banner would fail because his/her efforts were too extreme, but a Democratic legislature with a Republican Governor like Hogan might push through the partial long gun ban because it had a shot. And some here probably would defend Hogan for it.

Hogan has already calculated that he can win without gun rights voters support. His actions indicate that he doesn't care a whit about gun rights. I think he'll win the election based on the state of the Maryland economy, his less taxes than Democrats policy, and being anti-Trump. At this point, while I will vote on other issues and for pro gun rights politicians running for other offices, I'm not planning on pulling the lever for Hogan. His actions have lost my support, and he's determined that he doesn't need it.

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It’s like Hogan’s a cult leader and folks will defend him to no end no matter what infringements he asks for and puts on the 2a

Any infringement is too many

iH8DemLibz · May 10, 2018

TexDefender said:
I disagree. To vote for a Lefty will expedite the 2A rights erosion. Until someone from this forum, that has a brand name recognition and a serious chance to win. You simply expedite the process, it didn't become this way overnight, it's not going to change overnight.

I completely agree.

His steadfast dedication to The Bill of Rights speaks volumes for the future of 2A rights in Maryland.

CrazySanMan · May 10, 2018

TexDefender said:
I disagree. To vote for a Lefty will expedite the 2A rights erosion. Until someone from this forum, that has a brand name recognition and a serious chance to win. You simply expedite the process, it didn't become this way overnight, it's not going to change overnight.

Don't vote for a lefty. You missed my point entirely. To hell with this election - the 2A rights of Marylanders will be worse 4 years from now whether Hogan or a D wins, you are screwed either way. Vote for Quinn or write in a strong conservative from history. Let the MDGOP know that their candidates are BS and you won't bite that turd sandwich. It's about getting better candidates in the future, not about picking the candidate who sucks the least.

For the lifetime of everyone on this forum Marylnd Republicans have had to pick the lesser of two evils. How is that working out for us? Are your 2A rights better now than they were 4 years ago? How about your tax burden? Is crime lower in your neighborhood now? What about graffiti, is there less now? Why do you fall in line time after time and vote for the lesser of two evils without trying to get a candidate who isn't evil? Sh!t don't make no sense.

TexDefender · May 10, 2018

CrazySanMan said:
Don't vote for a lefty. You missed my point entirely. To hell with this election - the 2A rights of Marylanders will be worse 4 years from now whether Hogan or a D wins, you are screwed either way. Vote for Quinn or write in a strong conservative from history. Let the MDGOP know that their candidates are BS and you won't bite that turd sandwich. It's about getting better candidates in the future, not about picking the candidate who sucks the least.

For the lifetime of everyone on this forum Marylnd Republicans have had to pick the lesser of two evils. How is that working out for us? Are your 2A rights better now than they were 4 years ago? How about your tax burden? Is crime lower in your neighborhood now? What about graffiti, is there less now? Why do you fall in line time after time and vote for the lesser of two evils without trying to get a candidate who isn't evil? Sh!t don't make no sense.

So the Patriot Picket is useless based on your argument. No, I don't share your viewpoint. I think it is wrong. I'm not about to speed up the process any faster than it is currently going. Maybe the situation can change, maybe people will not just vote for the person with a D by their name. Much of it depends on how you sell it. Much depends on what the Governor can deliver. We will just have to disagree.

Not_an_outlaw · May 10, 2018

Schipperke said:
That. Anyone with skin in the game as an entrepreneur, not proactively punching Hogan's box, I take has quick exit plans to a border state. Even people who's entire life revolves exclusively around 2A (which would make me a mental case) actually believes a Democrat like Baker etc. wouldn't be proactively leading a gun control charge , is just acting a bit scorned at the moment. Hogan has signed nothing that even compares to FSA2013, get a grip. Democrats:Republic votes in primaries are 2:1 in Maryland. If you live in this state, just get over it. MoCo, PG, Charles and Baltimore run the state with Howard and AA now leaning left as well. Go to MSAR, there is a line out the door on weekends, lot of shooters. Nine out of ten there probably voted for Hillary. The overall gun owner percentage in our state is very low, perhaps 20% of households. Now take 90% of that number who don't even follow anything of gun laws. I have no idea where people in Maryland believe gun rights voters have any pull.

MoCo, Hillary 75% , PG 88%.. Those are huge super majorities.

I believe the failure to recognize due process is a much bigger threat than FSA2013. Your "Get a grip" and "know everything attitude" is getting a bit old. How about recognizing there are other opinions of merit other than your own when you are in disagreement.

Muleskinner · May 10, 2018

RepublicOfFranklin said:
If he wins a second term, still leaps and bounds better than a Democrat winning

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Please elaborate. I would like to know exactly how you think it's going to be Leaps and Bounds better. Since the general assembly can pass any bill into law they wish and Hogan cannot stop them there is absolutely no way it's going to be Leaps and Bounds better. Hogan is not a dictator he cannot make any law that only thing he can do is veto bad Bill passed by the general assembly. He has already proven that he's not willing to do that with gun control laws. So I'll ask again how will it be Leaps and Bounds better? I'll save you the trouble. It won't be. Remove Hogan and put anyone else in that seat. It makes absolutely no difference whatsoever.

Muleskinner · May 10, 2018

It looks to me like there are an awful lot of people here who do not value their second amendment rights. If you're willing to vote for a man who signed them away simply because of the R next to his name then you
Might aswell vote for a democrat.. the results will be exactly the same. Hogan is a Democrat with an R next to his name. Voting for Hogan is the same as voting for a Democrat. There is no logical argument against that point. But if you feel so inclined as to throw away your second amendment rights by all means please go ahead. Just don't come here ranting and complaining about losing your rights because you helped throw them away

SCV/SAR Patriot · May 10, 2018

Hogan can go _________

buellsfurn · May 10, 2018

TexDefender said:
So the Patriot Picket is useless based on your argument. No, I don't share your viewpoint. I think it is wrong. I'm not about to speed up the process any faster than it is currently going. Maybe the situation can change, maybe people will not just vote for the person with a D by their name. Much of it depends on how you sell it. Much depends on what the Governor can deliver. We will just have to disagree.

I'm not getting the Patriot Picket part Crazy man is spot on. Hogan made promises he didn't keep. Said he was pro gun he's not Said he supported concealed carry HPRB has done little IMO he could have done more. Now he's throwing out free college (buying votes then and buying votes now). More hot air that he knows people want to hear .Just my 2 cents

whistlersmother · May 10, 2018

sleepingdino said:
You Hogan haters are delusional. Politics doesn't work that way. Winning means getting your way some of the time and keeping the opposition from making things worse.

The next Democratic governor will surely propose a raft full of gun grabbing legislation and have a GA to approve it. When this happens, many gun people will gnash their teeth, whine, and wonder why so many 2A supporters didn't vote.

Hogan, like Trump, may not be doing anything obvious to further gun rights, but he is much better than the alternative.

you do realize the MGA can do anything it wants to do now, right? A Dem governor OR the MGA can already pull NJ and CA restrictions on us. Hogan or any other slug in the governor's office can't stop it.

They can abolish the governership and override the veto.

Hogan has sided with the anti's, shown he's willing to spend our money, and doesn't have any pull in the MGA.

At this point, he is useless, helpless, and for many of us, hopeless.

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So what if Hogan wins a Second term?

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