Any Other Thurmont Range (TCSC) Members Here?

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  • pilot25

    Ultimate Member
    Jul 13, 2016
    1,822
    On the rifle range, the 50 yard target is a bit lower than the platform we shoot from. If I zero my rifle to 50 yards I should technically also be zeroed at 200 yards. Is the angle, from the platform to 50 yard target, significant enough to alter the impact at 50 / 200 yards on flat ground? It doesn't seem too significant to me but I really have no idea.

    Bumping this question for those who are ballistic aficionados.
     

    pilot25

    Ultimate Member
    Jul 13, 2016
    1,822

    Thanks. I'll have to find out what the height is. I bet it's 10 feet above the target. I'm told that height is pretty insignificant.

    I have a golf range finder that will tell you the compensated range to the flag based on the angle. Its solves the Pythagorean theorem for you. This seems to be the same thing.
     

    mopar92

    Official MDS Court Jester
    May 5, 2011
    9,513
    Taneytown
    Got it but another question for those who have regularly used the rifle range.

    The 50 yard mark is a bit lower than the platform we shoot from. If I zero my rifle to 50 yards I should technically also be zeroed at 200 yards. Is the angle, from the platform to 50 yard target, significant enough to alter the impact at 50 / 200 yards on flat ground? It doesn't seem too significant to me but I really have no idea.

    Just a helpful tidbit, but you're not zeroed for 200 yards. You're zeroed for 50 yards. You'll be close at 200 but you can only be zeroed for 1 distance.

    Now the deviation in impact you're looking for should only be 1-3".
     

    pilot25

    Ultimate Member
    Jul 13, 2016
    1,822
    Just a helpful tidbit, but you're not zeroed for 200 yards. You're zeroed for 50 yards. You'll be close at 200 but you can only be zeroed for 1 distance.

    Now the deviation in impact you're looking for should only be 1-3".

    Ok, thanks. Everything I have read is 50 yard zero is the same as 200 yard zero.

    edit: I guess 50 yard zero is 200 METER zero. ACK!
     

    DanGuy48

    Ultimate Member
    Just a helpful tidbit, but you're not zeroed for 200 yards. You're zeroed for 50 yards. You'll be close at 200 but you can only be zeroed for 1 distance.

    Now the deviation in impact you're looking for should only be 1-3".

    Just to be clear on your explanation to him, you can be zeroed for one distance but the bullet could be crossing the line of sight at two different distances; for example, with a 25 yard zero the bullet will cross (intersect) the line of sight at 25 yards and then again cross the line of sight as the bullet is descending some 250-300 yards further out depending, on the bullet weight, velocity, etc.
     

    pilot25

    Ultimate Member
    Jul 13, 2016
    1,822
    No I get it. I just thought 50 yards was 200 yards but it's 200 meters. 250ish yards.

    How many scopes have a range finder built into it? Seems to me that should be a standard feature on a scope.
     

    pilot25

    Ultimate Member
    Jul 13, 2016
    1,822
    For what its worth, the 50 yard berm is actually 46 yards with an adjusted distance of 43 yards.
     

    DanGuy48

    Ultimate Member
    How many scopes have a range finder built into it? Seems to me that should be a standard feature on a scope.

    Better scopes, that have options for different reticules, can be bought with ranging reticules. The range determination is not as precise as a laser rangefinder but they do a decent job for quick and dirty adjustments. There are a lot of variations depending on the manufacturer.
     

    DaemonAssassin

    Why should we Free BSD?
    Jun 14, 2012
    23,970
    Political refugee in WV
    Better scopes, that have options for different reticules, can be bought with ranging reticules. The range determination is not as precise as a laser rangefinder but they do a decent job for quick and dirty adjustments. There are a lot of variations depending on the manufacturer.

    That's not exactly true. The mil-dot can be highly accurate for ranging, if you know how to use the calculation correctly.

    http://8541tactical.com/range_estimation.php

    mil_formula.jpg


    taliban_reticle.jpg


    mil_formula_example1.jpg


    Hopefully this dispels the unwarranted notion that ranging reticles are not as precise as a laser rangefinder.
     

    1time

    Ultimate Member
    Apr 26, 2009
    2,258
    Baltimore, Md
    68dce47aee857ee7c7d0cdc9bbc4ffaa.png


    A is where the target is, B is where you are shooting from. So c is the distance to the target when you use a laser range finder. It is also the distance you use when calculating wind. b is the distance you would use to calculate drop. Is would affect zero also but not by much. If you know the distance to the target and can figure out how high you are you could figure out what distance is your zero.
     

    DanGuy48

    Ultimate Member
    That's not exactly true. The mil-dot can be highly accurate for ranging, if you know how to use the calculation correctly.

    http://8541tactical.com/range_estimation.php

    mil_formula.jpg


    taliban_reticle.jpg


    mil_formula_example1.jpg


    Hopefully this dispels the unwarranted notion that ranging reticles are not as precise as a laser rangefinder.

    Good stuff! Thank you! The upside to being wrong about something is that one always learns something new. I'm aware of mil-dot reticles, of course, but never paid them that much attention. All of mine are MOA.

    This is an opportunity for me to ask another question. I started with M.O.A. and just stuck with it because I have been under the impression that, if your doing strictly known distance shooting, Mil-dot does not add much of anything over M.O.A. Under those conditions, would you say that's an accurate statement? I want to make sure I'm not overlooking some less obvious benefit.
     

    1time

    Ultimate Member
    Apr 26, 2009
    2,258
    Baltimore, Md
    Good stuff! Thank you! The upside to being wrong about something is that one always learns something new. I'm aware of mil-dot reticles, of course, but never paid them that much attention. All of mine are MOA.

    This is an opportunity for me to ask another question. I started with M.O.A. and just stuck with it because I have been under the impression that, if your doing strictly known distance shooting, Mil-dot does not add much of anything over M.O.A. Under those conditions, would you say that's an accurate statement? I want to make sure I'm not overlooking some less obvious benefit.



    People make to much of mil vs MOA. They both do the same thing and long as the turrets match the reticle. MOA is a little more precise, mil is a few less clicks. It makes so little difference that it's not worth thinking about.

    I would give more consideration to what your shooting buddies are using. If they are spotting your misses in mils and you are trying to convert to MOA it sucks.

    As far at dots, I prefer hashes to dots. My tape measure doesn't have dots, neither do my scopes.
     

    pilot25

    Ultimate Member
    Jul 13, 2016
    1,822
    No I get it. I just thought 50 yards was 200 yards but it's 200 meters. 250ish yards.

    How many scopes have a range finder built into it? Seems to me that should be a standard feature on a scope.
    To revisit this seemingly over done concept, a 2012 video by Jerry Miculek states he sights his rifle at, "200 yards which is the same point of impact at 50 yards."

    I'm going to follow this man's advise as he is clearly the best in the business.
     

    DaemonAssassin

    Why should we Free BSD?
    Jun 14, 2012
    23,970
    Political refugee in WV
    To revisit this seemingly over done concept, a 2012 video by Jerry Miculek states he sights his rifle at, "200 yards which is the same point of impact at 50 yards."

    I'm going to follow this man's advise as he is clearly the best in the business.

    That is for 308....

    25 yard is the same as 300 yard for 223.
     

    pilot25

    Ultimate Member
    Jul 13, 2016
    1,822
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8i34l9yJcdg

    He states AR15 in the beginning of the video and keeps referencing his competition rifle sitting in front of him.

    I'm not arguing, just all the explanations online are not in congruence with each other. Even among the experts like JM.

    I'm going to assume I'm missing some detail like yards vs. meters, as I thought before, or 308 vs 5.56 like you state, but I don't know. JM is pretty explicit in this video but so are other experts.

    I cannot shoot 200 yards very accurate with a red dot so I'm not too worried about it but it is just fun learning and researching it.


    Unrelated, I like this guy's videos. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lP7dszBAezk

    Hope they are accurate in their information.
     

    pilot25

    Ultimate Member
    Jul 13, 2016
    1,822
    Found another video of a review of a new Vortex UH-1 Holographic sight. mrgunsandgear youtube page. He flashes the manual for the optic which is designed to be sighted at 25 yards or 50 yards using M855 ammunition. In the depiction it shows 50 yard zero = 212 yard second zero. 50 meter zero = 180 second zero.

    So if experts are teaching how to zero a rifle at 50 yards then I'm guessing they are generalizing where the second zero is by stating "200" yards.
     
    Last edited:

    Broncolou

    Active Member
    Jan 22, 2013
    689
    Parkton MD
    The 50/200 yard zero is close in most 55-75 gr ammo in most 16/18 ar's. Nothing it proven until you true your own gun/load. There is no BDC chart or magic bullet info that holds true for everyones firearm shooting any particular combo.
     

    pilot25

    Ultimate Member
    Jul 13, 2016
    1,822
    The 50/200 yard zero is close in most 55-75 gr ammo in most 16/18 ar's. Nothing it proven until you true your own gun/load. There is no BDC chart or magic bullet info that holds true for everyones firearm shooting any particular combo.

    Thanks. I keep thinking it is an exact science. Close but not quite.
     

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