Timber Contract

SideOfABarn · Mar 25, 2015

I have about 100 acres in Hampshire County, WV (about 30+ miles south of Frostburg/Cumberland) that I want to partially timber to clear some space for recreation, hunting, etc. Tons of oak, maple, beech and almost no pine trees.

My first timber contact wants to charge me 12 percent to do the select cut selections and manage the timbering. This is my first contact and wanted to see if this was a reasonable price based on other's experience. I'm sure these prices are regional but any advice/experience would be very much appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

Mooseman · Mar 25, 2015

I know a guy near Augusta that used to log. I will see if he still does it and would be interested.

bbgunn177 · Mar 25, 2015

Our family has used J.L. Gossert (Jeff) out of York PA on about 10 cuts over the last 20 years. Top quality guy knows the market, knows what to cut and what to leave. I don't know his current fee off hand. His number is 717-751-0864

dontpanic · Mar 25, 2015

Contact the extension office in the county where your property is. They will know the going rate there and qualufied foresters.

12% is on the high side. But with mostly hardwood, that may be the going rate.

You are going to see a much higher profit when you hire a forrester vs doing it yourself.

My nephew just graduated in forrestry from WV.

Rem700fan · Mar 25, 2015

You probably realize this but you want someone doing the timbering that you can trust. How do you know if they hauled 90 or 100 loads to the mill? That being said I will get and pm the contact info of the guy that timbers our hunt club in Hampshire Co. to you. I wont put his info out without his consent first. Basically we tell him where we want cut, what size trees to cut and if we want an area cleared. I do not know what he charges, but will get contact info and you can take it from there. I would not recommend him if I did trust him.
pm sent.

Swaged · Mar 25, 2015

If more than just a couple acres, hire a Timber Cruiser.
They work for you with an honest assessment,
know current pricing, can come out ahead overall, if a large stand.

I've heard way too many horror stories like loaded trucks going to different
mills other than where contract is, to bypass payments.

SideOfABarn said:
I have about 100 acres in Hampshire County, WV (about 30+ miles south of Frostburg/Cumberland) that I want to partially timber to clear some space for recreation, hunting, etc. Tons of oak, maple, beech and almost no pine trees.

My first timber contact wants to charge me 12 percent to do the select cut selections and manage the timbering. This is my first contact and wanted to see if this was a reasonable price based on other's experience. I'm sure these prices are regional but any advice/experience would be very much appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

SideOfABarn · Mar 25, 2015

Thank you very much for the info so far-I will be reaching out to all contacts tomorrow. I've heard a ton of bad stories as well with landowners only getting a portion of what they should be paid. I just want to make sure I get a fair price-with maybe 70 acres to timber I have a lot to lose.

Swaged, what's a timber cruiser? I will google it but I'm not familiar with it?

thanks again everyone.

pro1742 · Mar 25, 2015

Any timber contract I have done you work directly with your Forester on what you want to harvest based on your overall goals and he will survey the timber stand and will you tell you exactly how many board feet of timber you have sell and put it out for bid. The trees are marked in advance as far as what is to be harvested. You should also be paid in advance before cutting begins. Any properly written contract will also address any unauthorized harvesting and or property damages.

So I am not sure what some of these other guys are talking about how many truck loads and which mills they are going too?

traveller · Mar 25, 2015

Can someone give me the cliff notes on timber ontracts ?

Do you sell the standing timber to the company that cuts it or is it yours until it goes into the yard at the mill and you have to pay the cutter, the forester etc. out of your revenue ?

RustinRifle55 · Mar 25, 2015

Make sure they are bonded. If not you might not get your money and could be liable for insurance claims.

pro1742 · Mar 25, 2015

traveller said:
Can someone give me the cliff notes on timber ontracts ?

Do you sell the standing timber to the company that cuts it or is it yours until it goes into the yard at the mill and you have to pay the cutter, the forester etc. out of your revenue ?

On legitimate timber bids and contracts, when you accept the contract you are the selling the negotiated timber to the timber company. Usually the contract gives them a specified period of time to harvest. In some areas timber cutting is dependent on weather conditions like land with high moisture content. One contract I had on some property down by Blackwater Refuge the timber company had a 4 year period to harvest and due to unusually wet summers it took them 3.5 years before they could actually cut.

Generally, it is the timber company that actually cuts the timber but it is not uncommon for them to subcontract that work out.

The forester who usually represents the landowner is generally paid a negotiated percentage of the landowners contracted price. Usually, the landowner is paid 50% to full price of the contracted bid up front depending the expected time frame to harvest. But in either case the contract price has to be paid in full prior to cutting.

SideOfABarn · Mar 25, 2015

I know every tract of land is different but does anyone want to throw out an average per acre they received/expected for timbering a mostly hardwood forest. I have no baseline to work from so I feel like I'm negotiating blind. Any info at all would be appreciated.

pro1742 · Mar 25, 2015

SideOfABarn said:
I know every tract of land is different but does anyone want to throw out an average per acre they received/expected for timbering a mostly hardwood forest. I have no baseline to work from so I feel like I'm negotiating blind. Any info at all would be appreciated.

There are to many variables to give a per acre comparison. Its all dependent on the species of timber, age of the timber, type of land to be harvested, select cut vs clear cut, transporatation cost to the mill, current market values, current market demand, and any special contractual conditions you may ask for.

You can do a rough estimate yourself if you know how to measure a tree in board feet and want to take the time to cruise your timber but it sounds like you probably dont have that experience so I would recomend that you hire a forester to do that for you.

-Mil-Surp-Phreak- · Mar 25, 2015

Let me talk to my father in law about who he uses for his property of about 1000 acres also in WVa. I know he has changed guys at least once as the first guy tried pulling a fast one on cutting where he wasn't supposed to and claiming that someone else cut there so I can understand your hesitations. The new guy has been nothing but a breeze for my father in law to work with since he is kinfolk of sorts and now my wife's uncle is living at the property and can somewhat supervise or at least give my father in law updates on goings on at the property. Once this job is done my father in law is going to take the cash from the timber and plop a prefab cabin on the pond on the property and spend the rest of his days relaxing and doing whatever he wants.

Deersniper · Mar 28, 2015

bbgunn177 said:
Our family has used J.L. Gossert (Jeff) out of York PA on about 10 cuts over the last 20 years. Top quality guy knows the market, knows what to cut and what to leave. I don't know his current fee off hand. His number is 717-751-0864

Yes. Use this guy. Charges 15% but will make you more noney than a cheaper guy. And makes sure the job is done right.

Edit. He doesn't log. He marks a the trees to cut and not cut. Then bids the timber out. Bids ranged from 110-160k on 40 acres of timber

SideOfABarn · Mar 30, 2015

Thanks for the info everyone.

Deersniper-thank you for the ballpark number. The estimate given to me on about 80 acres is only about 25k before fees. My property is almost exclusively hardwoods and it's loaded with white and red oak. I felt like my number was low but now I think it's REALLY low!

HarCo2ANewb · Mar 30, 2015

Don't just pick the highest number either, make sure you are getting a good deal, both for your wallet and for the health of your forest. Nothing grinds my gears more than seeing a crew come in, take only good trees and set a property back 50 years. MD has a few super straight forward forestry programs that give you property tax credits for setting up responsible, long term planning.

If you haven't yet, check these programs out and use them to the fullest. They aren't a bunch of tree huggers who don't want you to cut any trees down. they want you to get paid and get as much from your land as possible, even if it takes a few more years.https://www.forestryforthebay.org

SHMEEB · Mar 30, 2015

I feel like we, as a country, are cutting down way too many trees. If you ask me, we should let nature take its course more often. Too much modernization, man.

pro1742 · Apr 1, 2015

SHMEEB said:
I feel like we, as a country, are cutting down way too many trees. If you ask me, we should let nature take its course more often. Too much modernization, man.

I disagree. Through better timber management programs there are more trees today than there were 100 years ago. Take Western Maryland for example, back at the turn of the century that part of the state was all but stripped clean of timber from massive clear cutting, to the point they had serious erosion issues.

DrCatt · Apr 2, 2015

100 years ago almost all of central and northern PA was clear cut too. Today's tree count is much better, at least in the US.

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