Has anyone come accross this yet??

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  • Chase

    Member
    Dec 28, 2007
    22
    Harford Firearms Academy is almost there!!!

    I am the owner of the website you have been discussing. I would like to take the opportunity to explain my idea and ask for your input. This is going to take a lot of work, most of which I have completed.

    About two years ago I went to Gunpowder to shoot with my 8 year old son. The place was closed. They lost their lease. I thought since there is no other indoor range in the county there is an opportunity to provide service to the county in a grand way that has never been seen in the area.

    Over the past two years, with the help of several outstanding people, I was able to develop a business plan, financial forecasts and plans for the range. Costs and expenses have been established and market research has been completed. I have been in contact with the county department of economic development and have them in my corner. . I have begun the search for a location and have 2 possibilities.

    Now the fun begins. The obstacle at this point is funding. Several banks have reviewed the plan and financials. All have praised the ideas and work that been completed. One has tentatively agreed to finance 75% of the cost. The remaining 25% must come from me or investors or a newly created corporation, etc. The 25% must be used first then the 75% would kick in.

    I have two investors reviewing the paperwork. One is close to a decision and the word-of-mouth says it may go in my favor. However, this is a slow process for this group as the members are spread throughout the country and only meet occassionally. This group also looks to be the most organized and funded as well. So I wait.

    The second group has yet to see any paperwork. I am newly aware of them and I am seeking a meeting with in the next week or two.

    So you can see the dilemma.

    One possible solution was to solicit the donations as you see on the website. If everyone within a 30 mile radius of Abingdon contributed $5, there would have been no need for investors. I understand the apprehension of blind donations so I too did not put much stock in that. I chose not to pre-sell memberships since, at this point, I have no idea if or when the range will open. I don’t want the responsibility of holding your money and I am sure you have better things to do with it then let it sit in my bank account.

    I used paypal, because even though they are anti-gun they are still willing to take the money and give me a convenient accounting method. Their anti-gun stance is bogus. Ladyshooter uses them to collect for her NRA courses as do many other including myself. Paypal has no idea what is going on in the accounts.

    Yes, I did take certain parts of Scottsdale when creating my range. They seem to have excellent ideas and appear to be successful. Unfortunatly, they did not respond to inquiries so I had to wing it with just their website.

    Gentleman, I am open to any ideas or suggestions. There was even a suggestion that all the potential “Customers” form an investment group and assume a portion of ownership. Since this is probably the scenario that will be promoted by the first two groups, I have no problem with that either. We are talking about 7 figures worth of investment money, so it won’t be easy. If someone wants to contact me about becoming part of an investor group I would be willing to divulge more details as time passes.

    Thanks for you time and I look forward to hearing from you through the forum.
     

    epc3762

    Active Member
    Dec 30, 2007
    408
    Forest Hill, Maryland
    There is a indoor Range in Harford County. All recently remodeled too.

    Greetings Chase and Welcome. I like your idea. But there is "Horst McCann Indoor Gun Range" right in Hickory. The folks there are very friendly and helpful as well. By my experiences there. My wife and I both take our kids there to shoot as well.

    I do like the idea of another. What is your website?
     

    Spot77

    Ultimate Member
    May 8, 2005
    11,591
    Anne Arundel County
    Welcome, and thank you for letting out some of the details.

    Your concept sounds great and we look forward to updates as often as possible.

    Money aside, if there's anything else gunowners can do (such as writing letters of support to whoever might be influenced; investors, legislators, zoning people, etc) please let us know.
     

    garber38

    Custom tailored ionizer
    Dec 27, 2006
    877
    Somewhere in PA.
    Welcome to the site! I will join as soon as you open, since the place is less than a mile from my house. I think that you will get lots of support up here in Har Co. I think that some more exposure might help your cause. Maybe pre-memberships could raise that 25% or donations from people might give them an initial break the first or second years of membership. I didn't hear about this until Md Shooters Caeb75 pointed it out to us and thanks for doing that. The people here are great.
     

    Norton

    NRA Endowment Member, Rifleman
    Staff member
    Admin
    Moderator
    May 22, 2005
    122,879
    Welcome,

    I'm of the mindset that any new gun related business is good for MD and I sincerely wish you the best of luck in getting this thing going.

    Please keep us informed of your progress and keep an open dialogue as to what can be done to get this new facility up and running.
     

    Falkus

    Dating Scarlett Johansson
    Feb 26, 2007
    2,037
    Undisclosed location
    Just reading the whole website...

    I got a feeling that we could need to buy your ammo at your range ? or can we bring our own if we decided to join in ?
     

    Chase

    Member
    Dec 28, 2007
    22
    Gentlemen,

    After further thought, and a discussion with a business advisor, I have several questions for you.

    1. Would you be interested in buying memberships? These would be pre-opening sales and there may some time before you reap the benefits of your investment. I could even post a contract on the web site that would spell out the terms. You could download it, fill it out and send it in with your check.

    2. Would anyone be interested in a membership arrangement similar to gyms where a monthly fee is automatically deducted from a bank account or charged to a credit card?

    3. Does anyone know of any local sportsman who have money to invest? Would you provide names and contact information to me privately after getting their permission for release of their information?

    Thanks again for your help and previous suggestions, all are welcome and considered.

    Chase
     

    kac

    Ultimate Member
    Dec 9, 2007
    1,136
    In all candor, here's my greatest concern about pre-buying memberships. If my contract is made with a corporation, then if the plan fizzles, assuming the corporation has no net assets, I'm just out the money. Thus, I would be extremely unlikely to simply send 4 or 5 digits worth of money out the door. I would essentially bear the risk of an investor with no equity upside.
     

    Chase

    Member
    Dec 28, 2007
    22
    Pre selling

    That concern has been addressed in conversations. The plan would be to offer the contract with a time limit. After the time limit, if the club does not open then your money is refunded. I am in the process of having the contract developed by the attorneys. When completed it will be posted on the web site so it can be downloaded, filled out and mailed in with a check. I hope to make this very secure and comfortable for those who participate.
     

    fivepointstar

    Thank you MD-Goodbye
    Apr 28, 2008
    30,714
    3rd Rock from the Sun
    I know this gentleman personally and it is a very expensive set up he is trying to accomplish. He has a bank willing to lend some money on it and the business plan has been done. I am supposed to meet with him to take a look at it soon and see if I can get an investor on board.

    He is trying to make it feasible in our neck of the woods zoostation, which would be cool for us.

    I've had a few conversations with the owner, one about 2 weeks ago. As 3rdRcn stated, the problem he's having is $$, then finding the land and then permits. I use to work with him he wanted the Rt 40 corridor b/n Edgewood and Aberdeen.

    I know it looks kinda shady but I know the guy and he's trying to benefit the gun community.
     

    RegularJay

    NRA & SAF Life Member
    MDS Supporter
    Sep 20, 2007
    1,382
    Harford County
    The former Edgewood Thrift Store is vacant across from the old Giant.

    I have had some experience with "investing" in an "idea" for a business. Short story Investing in something like this is much like gambling in Vegas. If the business doesn't fly you are out your money period. A "contract" with a bankrupt business is worth exactly zero. This guy could take "investor" money and spend it on Pabst and hookers and the investors have no effective recourse at all. Sure you could sue the business but if its out of money you get nothing but a bill from your lawyer. My advice if you really want to invest in this (or anything like this) is to have a personal contract with the owner not with the business. If the business fails the "corporate shield" protects the owner from financial liability.

    All that said, A guy who scams a bunch of gun enthusiasts would be taking a pretty big risk if you get my drift.

    My negativity about this sort of investing has NOTHING to do with this individual or his plan it has a lot to do with a lesson learned the hard way.

    I hope this work out and I'll be in line if it opens up.
     

    RegularJay

    NRA & SAF Life Member
    MDS Supporter
    Sep 20, 2007
    1,382
    Harford County
    Might want to contact the Sheriffs Department. The detention center has a range in the basement that as far as I know was shut down due to lead contamination some years back. It was state of the art when it was constructed and from what I recall had quite a few lanes. Likely be way cheaper to refurbish that facility and partner with the department in its operation. Guarantee that the zoning and NIMBY issues wont be issues there.

    Or, you could certainly contact the folks at APG. I am aware of outdoor small arms ranges but nothing of any size indoors that I'm aware of. Again, a partnership arrangement would be most beneficial as plenty of land is available and zoning and NIMBY whiners wouldnt be able to touch you there. Access for folks onto post with a firearm would be problematic (witness the overgrown trap range in Edgewood) but if you could work that out thats likely the best cheapest option.

    Of course, if either of my ideas work out I'll be looking for lifetime privileges.

    Jay
     

    Magnumite

    Ultimate Member
    Dec 17, 2007
    6,573
    Harford County, Maryland
    I've been stung twice buying memberships then the ranges fold up, so I'm not too keen on presold memberships to a nonexistant range without a site being built upon already.
    I was approached many moons back about investing in opening an indoor range in the Havre de Grace Route 40 area. Ended up being the building owner working to get a rental contract for a vacant building he had. So investment for me with hard to come by dollars would be a very cautious action on my part and expectations of weight in decisions and an "open door" to all books.

    Being an "investor" usually indicates substancial 4 or usually 5 digit commitments with control of the $$$ by someone else. For investors, there would have to be a trust developed and a watchdog implemented. Plus investor weight in decisions and income would be necessitated.

    What could work, would be a community co-op. The formal term escapes me right now. Ben and Jerry's Ice Cream started and uses this concept.

    Let's say it cost $500,000 to get this range built and implemented without all the bells and whistles...I am sure it will be much more. The goal would be to sell, lets say $1000 shares (to reach more people) to 500 co-op members (or $2000 to 250 people). The operator of the range is simply that, or a CEO if you will. There wouldn't really be an owner...all the co-op members are the owners. All the members have a vote in decisions being made. The range would be run for profit, of course. Costs incurred would be salaries determined by the co-op owners, and other expenses paid, then profit distributed amoung the members by shares held. Profits held from holders for growth would be determined by the entire co-op group. Maybe mandatory work time implemented to reduce operating costs - those would be co-op decisions.

    I've thought of this often, it would work with a group really interested in the range operation as well as getting trigger time.

    Does anyone have any idea what the projected number of people buying range time (or memberships) would be in this area? I am sure the banks inquired about that to Chase
     

    SRTMO

    Active Member
    Apr 29, 2009
    360
    Ceciltucky
    I'd like to see this range up and running but, I am skeptical about buying a membership before the doors are open.
     

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