PERMIT APPLICATION RETURNED

BenL · Apr 12, 2012

What's truly ironic is that this tactic is right out of the South's "your-money-is-no-good-here" tactics of trying to continue segregation. Don't want to be forced to deny the application? Simple: refuse to accept their application. Man, they are despicable.

BUFF7MM · Apr 12, 2012

Inigoes said:
Western MD'rs and Southern MD'rs might have to file something at the 90 day mark. Because it looks like our local barracks doesn't what the extra head ache (or waste of time as they may see it), investigating on something that isn't concrete.

Time to mark the calendar for 90 days from the 14th of March. :thumbsup:

esqappellate · Apr 12, 2012

teratos said:
I wonder how that will go, since they never really processed the app. I bet they say "we don't have one one file, you can't appeal". That would be great.

Yeah, it would do George Orwell proud.

jmcgonig · Apr 12, 2012

Every time I think this section of the board is going to get boring for a few weeks - it isn't. Its like a soap opera.

jfox · Apr 12, 2012

At what point of maliciously denying one's civil rights I wonder, may one seek (and have a reasonable chance of receiving) damages?

dlmcbm · Apr 12, 2012

jmcgonig said:
Every time I think this section of the board is going to get boring for a few weeks - it isn't. Its like a soap opera.

esqappellate · Apr 12, 2012

Brooksy said:
Doesn't this action violate the adopted regulations in COMAR?

29.03.02.03 "Upon receipt of the application and the supporting material described, the Secretary shall cause an investigation of the applicant to be conducted for the purpose of determining whether the applicant possesses the qualifications for a permit as required by Public Safety Article, §5-306, Annotated Code of Maryland." http://www.dsd.state.md.us/comar/getfile.aspx?file=29.03.02.03.htm

AND

29.03.02.06 "Upon the completion of the investigation, the Secretary of State Police shall notify the applicant by letter either that the permit has been issued or that it has been denied . http://www.dsd.state.md.us/comar/getfile.aspx?file=29.03.02.06.htm

Emphasis Mine. Doesn't seem that leaves room to return an application before processing it.

very good points.

MdMedic · Apr 12, 2012

My problem since day one has been to definition of what EXACTLY constitutes "good and substantial". Vague wording like that makes the decision completely subjective. Personally, I believe "for self-defense and all lawful purposes" constitutes G&S.

Mr H · Apr 12, 2012

MdMedic said:
My problem since day one has been to definition of what EXACTLY constitutes "good and substantial". Vague wording like that makes the decision completely subjective. Personally, I believe "for self-defense and all lawful purposes" constitutes G&S.

Remember... they "know it when they see it."

They ARE, after all, looking out for you.

:bs:

WeaponsCollector · Apr 12, 2012

I have a "good and substantial" gun permit.....
View attachment good&substantial.bmp
But getting the state to understand is a whole different matter.

dlmcbm · Apr 12, 2012

MdMedic said:
My problem since day one has been to definition of what EXACTLY constitutes "good and substantial". Vague wording like that makes the decision completely subjective. Personally, I believe "for self-defense and all lawful purposes" constitutes G&S.

The letter states to call if there are any questions. OP should call to ask for a list of G&S reasons to see if he meets any of them.

Seriously he should.

cad68m_m · Apr 12, 2012

I also received the April 11 Permit application-Return letter. Original application date was April 3 only because it took until then for my Livescan appointment at the Waldorf DMV to come up. I called the MSP Handgun Permit Unit and asked if they would require a new Livescan when I reapply after the stay runs out, and they said YES, so I am out $54 Livescan and $13 postage to insure they received the app within 72 hours of the Livescan

teratos · Apr 12, 2012

dlmcbm said:
The letter states to call if there are any questions. OP should call to ask for a list of G&S reasons to see if he meets any of them. Seriously he should.

They are listed on the application......self defense isn't on there.

OnTarget · Apr 12, 2012

There will likely be more people to have their CCW applications and fee returned today, tomorrow, etc. Let us know about here, if you will, so we can put the pieces together.

Inigoes · Apr 12, 2012

cad68m_m said:
I also received the April 11 Permit application-Return letter. Original application date was April 3 only because it took until then for my Livescan appointment at the Waldorf DMV to come up. I called the MSP Handgun Permit Unit and asked if they would require a new Livescan when I reapply after the stay runs out, and they said YES, so I am out $54 Livescan and $13 postage to insure they received the app within 72 hours of the Livescan

Sure sounds like you were harmed :innocent0

IANAL

jmcgonig · Apr 12, 2012

This comes up in my email, just a few minutes ago... Glad nobody in MoCo is armed... This is in my "beat", seems G&S enough for me.

N2 Beat:

· Three strong-armed robberies occurred between 10:45 p.m. on Sunday, 4/1 and 12:30 a.m. on Monday, 4/2 in this Germantown beat.

Ø At Great Seneca Highway & Mateny Road. Suspects threatened victim with a weapon and obtained property.

Suspects: four black males, one armed with a handgun.

Ø At Mateny Road & Owl Run Way. Suspects threatened the victim with a weapon and obtained property.

Suspects: six black males and two Hispanic males, three armed with handguns

Ø In the 18000 block of Cottage Garden Drive. Suspects threatened the victim and obtained property.

Suspects: four black males, two wearing ski masks

esqappellate · Apr 12, 2012

Patrick said:
Re-reading the letter this is not final. OP can re-submit the application "for real" and then MSP will act upon it.

It's more steps than we should need to go through, but technically they said they would process it if he insists. ******** if you ask me.

They will call it a service - trying to warn people off.

If OP re-submits then they say they will process. His call.

You know, the letter is unclear. In setting out the options the letter says you can resubmit AND provide a good and substantial reason and then we will process. Presumably the application already says self defense and hence this is a ruling that self defense is NOT a good and substantial reason. Resubmitting the same application unchanged will thus result in the same form letter. Not much point in that. An administrative appeal would argue 1. returning an application and refusing to process is not an option permitted by COMAR (see post above) and that the MSP was therefore obligated to process and grant or deny to a final decision and 2. self defense is a good and substantial reason under Judge Legg's decision.

dlmcbm · Apr 12, 2012

teratos said:
They are listed on the application......self defense isn't on there.

Not that I recall.... Says a documented threat, G&S reason, etc. Says nothing about doctors, lawyers, people who carry Money, business owner or what G&S is. Plus the OPer said he listed something about work so does that fall into the G&S reason?

STAND CORRECTED----- it does list these people on there web site But I would still hound them about what G&S is just for satisfaction.

Patrick · Apr 12, 2012

esqappellate said:
You know, the letter is unclear. In setting out the options the letter says you can resubmit AND provide a good and substantial reason and then we will process. Presumably the application already says self defense and hence this is a ruling that self defense is NOT a good and substantial reason. Resubmitting the same application unchanged will thus result in the same form letter. Not much point in that. An administrative appeal would argue 1. returning an application and refusing to process is not an option permitted by COMAR (see post above) and that the MSP was therefore obligated to process and grant or deny to a final decision and 2. self defense is a good and substantial reason under Judge Legg's decision.

Good points.

For those in this camp (appears to be more than one), I am curious what happens if they re-apply without G&S and say, "No. Really, process this."

I will get my answer. The wife is applying tomorrow.

swinokur · Apr 12, 2012

It would seem that the MSP consider 5ii invalid from Judge Legg's ruling 3-5 until the stay 3-30. So they sit on those. With 5ii effectively reinstated after the temporary stay, they then resumed their normal BS denial since G & S is now technically legal again.

Stupid games.

Appeal for the Comar violation seems like a good idea. To me it looks like they think G & S is legal until Judge Legg issues his ruling after May 23rd.

Guys, this is what tyranny looks like, and it's ugly

PERMIT APPLICATION RETURNED

The #1 community for Gun Owners of the Northeast

Member Benefits:

John Galt Speaking.

☠Buff➐㎣☠

President, MSI

Active Member

Member

Ultimate Member

President, MSI

Active Member

Banana'd

EXTREME GUN OWNER

Ultimate Member

Member MSI, SAF, NRA

My hair is amazing

Ultimate Member

Head'n for the hills

Active Member

President, MSI

Ultimate Member

MSI Executive Member

In a State of Bliss

Users who are viewing this thread

Log in

Forum statistics