Sig Sauer M11-A1 - E2 or not?

Mark K · Nov 5, 2020

How do you recognize a Sig Sauer P229 Classic vs. the E2 version, specifically the M11-A1?

I've got an M11-A1 in 9mm dating from about 2014. Milled slide, so it's pretty-much a P229. It's got the "normal" "P228" over five parallelograms molded into the left plastic grip, and "Sig Sauer" molded into the right grip; the grips each have two screws. All the magazines I've got are marked "P229-1," and they all fit.

I was always under the impression that this was not the E2 version. But not I'm not so sure...

Czechnologist · Nov 5, 2020

The M11-A1 has a rounded trigger guard and no accessory rail.

Mark K · Nov 5, 2020

Zzzzz_man said:
The M11-A1 has a rounded trigger guard and no accessory rail.

That's correct, and that's what I've got.

I'm just not sure whether it's an E2 version, with the slightly-wider magazines than classic. I didn't used to think so; but I'm starting to now, based on the magazine markings.

I didn't think E2's had the markings on the grips, though...

Bullfrog · Nov 5, 2020

Mark K said:
That's correct, and that's what I've got.

I'm just not sure whether it's an E2 version, with the slightly-wider magazines than classic. I didn't used to think so; but I'm starting to now, based on the magazine markings.

I didn't think E2's had the markings on the grips, though...

If it has screws in the grips, it is not an E2.

The E2 version has slimmer grips with no screws, and it requires a tool which releases an inner catch to remove the grips.

I don't think E2 has anything to do with the new (er) magazines, they were in use before the E2 grips.

fidelity · Nov 5, 2020

Zzzzz_man said:
The M11-A1 has a rounded trigger guard and no accessory rail.

Czechnologist · Nov 5, 2020

Bullfrog said:
If it has screws in the grips, it is not an E2.

The E2 version has slimmer grips with no screws, and it requires a tool which releases an inner catch to remove the grips.

I don't think E2 has anything to do with the new (er) magazines, they were in use before the E2 grips.

^^^

This is also how I always understood the difference.

Mark K · Nov 5, 2020

Bullfrog said:
If it has screws in the grips, it is not an E2.

The E2 version has slimmer grips with no screws, and it requires a tool which releases an inner catch to remove the grips.

That's what I'd always thought, and why I assumed my M11-A1 was a "Classic" -- not an E2.

Bullfrog said:
I don't think E2 has anything to do with the new (er) magazines, they were in use before the E2 grips.

I thought the "P229-1" magazines were the slightly-wider ones for the E2, that were a bit too wide for the "Classic." My "-1" magazines fit the M11-A1 perfectly, hence my doubts.

So what do the magazines for the E2 look like?

Brownell's identifies what looks identical to my P229-1 magazines as being "E2" -- with the two vertical grooves and the P229-1 marking -- and notes that "these mags should not be used in older P229 models":

https://www.brownells.com/magazines...gazines/p229-e2-magazine-15rd-prod104072.aspx

Mark K · Nov 5, 2020

fidelity said:

I agree. I carried a "real" government-issue M11 with one of the DoD Agencies in Afghanistan in 2012-13. I loved the way it fit my hand, and how compact it was for a service pistol. The M9 was always too big for my hands, and really big as far as concealment.

So I got the M11-A1 when I got home... Except the first thing I did was remove the silly scan sticker on the left side of the frame...

CATMdude · Nov 5, 2020

I thought the E2 were specifically related to the grips. Is the classic that you are referring to also the legacy P229? The legacy 229s are identified by the "half-height serrations" on the slide. They take the 13rd OEM mags. The 229-1 mags are for the newer guns that have the same frame as the .40 and .357 guns like the M11-A1. That's how I've understood the current models anyway.

Mark K · Nov 5, 2020

CATMdude said:
The 229-1 mags are for the newer guns that have the same frame as the .40 and .357 guns like the M11-A1. That's how I've understood the current models anyway.

That's what I always understood too. All this came about when the P229 with the milled slide came out over a decade ago, allowing the slide to be used for various calibers hotter than 9mm.

Sig Sauer wanted to keep as many components standard as possible between the various calibers. And since .40 and .357 rounds are wider, so were E2 magazines and E2 mag wells. I thought.

So what you guys are saying is that the P229-1 magazines are not for the E2? Despite what Brownells says?

Bullfrog · Nov 5, 2020

CATMdude said:
. The 229-1 mags are for the newer guns that have the same frame as the .40 and .357 guns like the M11-A1. That's how I've understood the current models anyway.

Mark K said:
That's what I always understood too. All this came about when the P229 with the milled slide came out over a decade ago, allowing the slide to be used for various calibers hotter than 9mm.

Sig Sauer wanted to keep as many components standard as possible between the various calibers. And since .40 and .357 rounds are wider, so were E2 magazines and E2 mag wells. I thought.

The frame change to match the .40/.357 size came about before the E2 grips did.

So what you guys are saying is that the P229-1 magazines are not for the E2? Despite what Brownells says?

E2 has nothing to do with magazines. The frame was not changed when they came out with the new grips, that was done before the E2 grips. You can buy the E2 grips and put them on your P229 that takes the -1 mags.

Mark K · Nov 5, 2020

Bullfrog said:
E2 has nothing to do with magazines. The frame was not changed when they came out with the new grips, that was done before the E2 grips.

So... E2 had to do with grips only, and not with frame (specifically mag well) size?

And when Brownells refers to "older P229 models" that the P229-1 magazines won't fit, that means the way-way-old models? How do you recognize those old P229s?

CATMdude · Nov 5, 2020

Bullfrog said:
E2 has nothing to do with magazines. The frame was not changed when they came out with the new grips, that was done before the E2 grips. You can buy the E2 grips and put them on your P229 that takes the -1 mags.

There was a P229E2 model. I managed to find this... https://web.archive.org/web/20151012074511/http://www.sigarms.com/CatalogProductDetails/p229-e2.aspx

It's been discontinued which is probably why no one really refers to them as an E2 model but it did take the updated 15rd mag. I got my first P229 around 2006 and only found out about the wider mags when I was trying to buy a second one. I ended up feeling old when I had to buy a legacy model for mag compatibility.

CATMdude · Nov 5, 2020

Mark K said:
So... E2 had to do with grips only, and not with frame (specifically mag well) size?

And when Brownells refers to "older P229 models" that the P229-1 magazines won't fit, that means the way-way-old models? How do you recognize those old P229s?

Those 229's had the half height cocking serrations on the slide. They are legacy models now, when you can find them. They used the same mags as the original P228's.

https://www.topgunsupply.com/sig-sauer-p229r-.40-da-sa-e2-legacy-iop.html

Mark K · Nov 5, 2020

CATMdude said:
Those 229's had the half height cocking serrations on the slide. They are legacy models now, when you can find them. They used the same mags as the original P228's.

https://www.topgunsupply.com/sig-sauer-p229r-.40-da-sa-e2-legacy-iop.html

Ah, those P228s/229s. I thought those slides, with the half-height serrations and the same lighter profile all the way back, were the old stamped ones...?

We had some of those in the safe in Afghanistan (which I was responsible for). They were all "M11" on the accountability documents, but I can't remember how they were marked. Hell, none of those handguns may have been marked specifically "M11" at all...

Here's the one I carried most of the time there. Note trigger guard profile and accessory rail...

So it looks like the one you linked to at Top Gun Supply was a mixmaster... old slide, but E2 grips. Assuming the slides were interchangeable, then, it may not be possible to tell what the width of the magazine well is...

fidelity · Nov 5, 2020

Mark K said:
Ah, those P228s/229s. I thought those slides, with the half-height serrations and the same lighter profile all the way back, were the old stamped ones...?

We had some of those in the safe in Afghanistan (which I was responsible for). They were all "M11" on the accountability documents, but I can't remember how they were marked. Hell, none of those handguns may have been marked specifically "M11" at all...

Here's the one I carried most of the time there. Note trigger guard profile and accessory rail...

So it looks like the one you linked to at Top Gun Supply was a mixmaster... old slide, but E2 grips. Assuming the slides were interchangeable, then, it may not be possible to tell what the width of the magazine well is...

Nice. Now I have a hankering for dark chocolate too.

Mark K · Nov 5, 2020

fidelity said:
Nice. Now I have a hankering for dark chocolate too.

Thanks. I think that was from someone's Christmas CARE package. You know you always share those...

Note the water bottle with Arabic on the label. Pallets of those were flown in from I think the UAE or somewhere... Quite a logistics effort...

Boats · Nov 5, 2020

Bullfrog said:
If it has screws in the grips, it is not an E2.

The E2 version has slimmer grips with no screws, and it requires a tool which releases an inner catch to remove the grips.

I don't think E2 has anything to do with the new (er) magazines, they were in use before the E2 grips.

correct.

the magazines are designated p229 and p229-1, with the -1 being the newer, wider ones.

E2 is only the grip.

Czechnologist · Nov 7, 2020

Mark K said:
Thanks. I think that was from someone's Christmas CARE package. You know you always share those...

Note the water bottle with Arabic on the label. Pallets of those were flown in from I think the UAE or somewhere... Quite a logistics effort...

Thank you for your service! :patriot:

Mark K · Nov 7, 2020

Zzzzz_man said:
Thank you for your service!

Thanks.

Though I was just a civilian staff puke at NATO/ISAF HQ in Kabul. Had rockets shot in my general direction, but being where they were aimed was probably the safest place to be...

Well, there WAS that midnight when the Big Voice loudspeaker alarm system started blaring a recorded "Ground...Attack! Ground...Attack!" Holy crap. I actually had the M11 out, peering up and down the 50-meter corridor of the CONEX living quarters (three beds to a container) along with everyone else. Then after a minute or so we heard "All...Clear! All...Clear!" I think one of the Allied guards in one of the towers must have fallen asleep and hit his head on the alarm switch...

Sig Sauer M11-A1 - E2 or not?

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