Best defense bullet in .38/.357?

Oddway Otts · Nov 18, 2018

I've seen the videos where various bullets are fired into ballistic gel, and noted the cavitations along the path. It seems like the most expansive cavitation often occurs several inches into the gel, to the point that unless the perp is a really fat person, the most serious effect would be after the through & through.

So, along the .38 special-.357 line, aside from the specialty bullets, in a home defense situation where one wants the maximum stopping power, with minimal over-penitration, which bullet would most likely have the most stopping power: lead round-nose, lead semi-wadcutter, or semi-jacketed hollow point?

I'm just curious: I really wouldn't want to hurt anybody (so don't Red Flag me). :innocent0

John from MD · Nov 18, 2018

125gn Gold Dot and maybe the 100 grain Extreme Defender bullet that Underwood uses.

Kman · Nov 18, 2018

.38 special standard pressure 158 grn jhp.

Just because I have around 1000 rounds of it. That's why I think it's best.

It has been most accurate out of snubbies...if you can have an accurate snubby.

38super · Nov 18, 2018

158 grain Lead SWHP, or Remington 158 grain SJHP in .357's. In 38 spl I like Federal Hydra Shocks.

Mt Airy · Nov 18, 2018

I have heard good stuff about Federal HST rounds

Bisleyfan44 · Nov 18, 2018

To answer your question, SJHP. Specifically Rem or Fed 125s.
Now to address what a 125 SJHP @1400 fps does to one's eardrums when fired indoors..... :sad20:

Biggfoot44 · Nov 18, 2018

Lead Hollow Point

*********************

I know the OP is legitimately asking , to find a suitable choice for his requirements . But " Most Bestest " ammo is Ford v Chevy , Tastes Great v less filling , and Ravens v Redskins all rolled into one . And with consecutive undefined terms in one sentence .

And further compounded by variables of the weight and bbl length of the gun(s) , and the revolver shooting skills and experience of the user(s) .

So , to assist the MDS Peanut Gallery , could you share with us the :

Gun in question

Which loads you currently feel comfortable and confident for reasonably accurate, fairly fast DA shooting ?

( Please excuse me if your trusty Roscoe is actually a Blackhawk, but rolling with the probabilities .)

august1410 · Nov 18, 2018

4" barreled Ruger Security Six. 180 Grain Hornady XTP on top of 13.2 grains of H110 powder. The 158 grain w/ 16.3 grains of powder puts out a fireball that would roast anything within a few inches.

Biggfoot44 · Nov 18, 2018

You say that like that's a bad thing

. A 2.75in Speed Six has a more better fireball .

But seriously , that does point to recoil and muzzle blast as selection factors .

Aamdskeetshooter · Nov 18, 2018

Here is some good information.

https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/revolver-ballistics-test/

smokey · Nov 18, 2018

https://www.luckygunner.com/38-spec...sonal-defense-micro-federal-20-rounds#geltest

This. You want penetration. Go to the nearest mirror. Hold your arms out like you are shooting. Now look in the mirror at how much stuff a bullet will need to penetrate in order to get to the heart/lungs. Keep in mind skin roughly equals 4" if gel. You want something that will penetrate at least 12-18", that's still doing lots of work late in the wound channel.

Don't worry about overpenetration that much, as there's not many people that have been shot by a bullet that has already gone through someone else. It's much more likely that it'll be by one of the shots that miss the target completely if someone down range is hit. You're more likely to need to keep firing(with the potential to send more missed shots downrange) by using an ineffective load, so use an effective one that penetrates to the vitals.

alucard0822 · Nov 18, 2018

Even at 1400ish FPS, temporary cavitation doesn't really do much to anything not made of jello, but it does take a lot of powder, pressure, and blast to get that high energy and velocity. Most damage is still from a bullet crushing tissue, and a few 38 loads like the 130gr HST penetrate and expand sufficiently.
Comparable mild 357 may get a little more expansion or penetration, which can be beneficial, hot 357 mag doesn't gain much outside of extreme penetration with hardcast or soft points, useful on critters, but not so much on people. You are better off being able to place several mild shots quicky than fire a single full power round with enough blast and noise to blind and disorient yourself.
Running a revolver is not easy, there are specialized techniques to deal with the low capacity and tedious reloads, working with speedloaders, clearing jammed cylinders, and a heavy-long double action trigger. One of the main benefits is the low bore axis, and cycle speed, which can speed up fast follow-up shots, and shrink rapid fire groups compared to an auto, but that is wasted with really hot loads. 38 also ejects better than 357, and can be a little easier to load.

Blaster229 · Nov 19, 2018

You can use a wad cutter if you land the first shot correctly.

Baccusboy · Nov 19, 2018

In .38 Special +P, I'd go with the Remington Golden Saber 125gr+P

It's what I carry with my Ruger LCR. Reason being, it's seemed to do well in every single gel test I've viewed.

If you want low-recoil in a .38, then the Winchester Super-X Match full wadcutter is just hard to beat. Lucky gunner's tests showed perfect results with this Winchester round. No expansion, but they punch a clean hole through perfect depth, crushing tissue, and don't over-penetrate.

In .357, there are tons of great bullets. The Winchester PDX1 is a good choice, here. Also Hornady Critical Defense, Federal Hyrdo-shok, Barnes, and 135 grain Gold Dots (not 158s).

https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/revolver-ballistics-test/

CrazySanMan · Nov 19, 2018

Ballistic gel is not the same as a human body. If a round travels 14" in ballistic gel that doesn't mean it will penetrate 14" of human.

For the best effect on a human, you want a round that will penetrate 12-16" of ballistic gel and stop there.

TheOriginalMexicanBob · Nov 19, 2018

If you can find any...out of production for some time now...try the Winchester 110 grain +P+ SJHP...it was known as the "Treasury Load" and was standard issue for the Secret Service prior to transitioning to .357 Sig. It's only safe to use in a revolver chambered for .357...a bit too much pressure for .38 Special chambered steel revolvers and way too much pressure for aluminum framed revolvers.

My snubby Python loves the +P+ stuff. I used to have a couple cases of the stuff but sold off most of it...just down to a couple of boxes now. If you can find the +P+ try it out.

CrazySanMan · Nov 19, 2018

MagSafe and Glaser rounds are devastating in .357.

danb · Nov 19, 2018

Hornady Critical Duty or Critical defense (Hornady "leverrevolution" is a similar bullet & load and a good choice too) - see post #10 for some good comparisons. It has reliable expansion in a variety of conditions and it is pretty accurate. Wont kill your wallet or your wrists. "Best" though is subjective. No bad guy says "please shoot me with the 22LR".

Statistically, mere brandishing stops the threat because the bad guy does not want to be shot. You could have all the power of the 500 S&W Magnum.. but if you flinch or cringe when shooting it, it wont do its job. Now, if its a meth-fueled home invasion, you clearly want the AK-47 not the 357. Which is to say, if you really expect an attack, the revolver is just the means to get your rifle.

jimbobborg · Nov 19, 2018

The gold standard has been and will always be the 125gr SJHP in 357 Magnum. It's not bad recoil wise out of a 4" barreled revolver. Since you're not in law enforcement, should you really be concerned about barrier penetration?

danb · Nov 19, 2018

I am not sure about "gold standard" 30 years ago maybe. These days people want suppressed, and I find heavier bullets (subsonic (69gr) work best in my suppressed revolver. They wont hear the bullet coming so they cant jump out of the way. But maybe thats a topic for NFA subforum.

Best defense bullet in .38/.357?

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