SAF SUES IN MARYLAND OVER HANDGUN PERMIT DENIAL UPDATED 3-5-12

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    Patrick

    MSI Executive Member
    Apr 26, 2009
    7,725
    Calvert County
    ...

    So, in other words, IF (big if here I think) we loose at the District court level (which, could very well happen, I know nothing about the MD Federal District court's make up), we go to the 2nd Circuit which is pretty "conservative" in judicial philosophy. ...

    Maryland is in the 4th Circuit, but your points stand all the same. Either losing party would appeal there. The Fourth covers Maryland, West Virginia, Virginia, and both Carolina's. It sits in Richmond. Of its current 12 sitting judges, seven were nominated by Democrats; five (six?) under Republicans - one of the Democratic nominees was nominated by both Clinton and Bush (recess appointment under Clinton, later re-nominated and approved under Bush), so you could argue an even six each.
     

    fightinbluhen51

    "Quack Pot Call Honker"
    Oct 31, 2008
    8,974
    As I understand it, the individual circuits are independent from one another, and a ruling in another circuit in no way affects those in another circuit. Now, perhaps circuits are supposed to look at their peers when ruling on a similar case, but they are under no obligation to find the same way. A discrepancy at the circuit level would all but guarantee SCOTUS granting cert to settle the matter, however.
    That is 100% correct. They are supposed to look to other circuits for case law, but they do not have to follow it. As I stated, a difference between any two circuits will probably send this straight to SCOTUS. IF, IF, every single circuit agrees, and SCOTUS likes the ruling, they can refuse the writs, letting the circuits stand and setting the precedent that the circuits have good case law.

    So, in essecnce, if DC Circuit and 9th Circuit agree 2A is fundamental and applies to the "bear" portion (either Constitutional Carry or equal protection permitting with self defense as a legally acceptable reason without question), then our 2nd Circuit will either have to stay in accord with those Circuits.

    It is like this, the only place we should be worried about loosing is at the SCOTUS level, and I really don't see that happening given the current make up of the court. Yes, we might have some undue "sensitive areas" restrictions that the state can come up with in the future, but, they will have to walk a fine line to show "interest" in restriction of the right as Patrick has best described in other threads.
     

    fightinbluhen51

    "Quack Pot Call Honker"
    Oct 31, 2008
    8,974
    Maryland is in the 4th Circuit, but your points stand all the same. Either losing party would appeal there. The Fourth covers Maryland, West Virginia, Virginia, and both Carolina's. It sits in Richmond. Of its current 12 sitting judges, seven were nominated by Democrats; five (six?) under Republicans - one of the Democratic nominees was nominated by both Clinton and Bush (recess appointment under Clinton, later re-nominated and approved under Bush), so you could argue an even six each.
    You are correct. My mistake, I had a brain fart in that I was thinking we were in the 2nd Circuit, but it is the 4th. Sorry to confuse anyone.
     

    Triggerscan

    Shooting Ventures, LLC
    Feb 11, 2010
    70
    Monrovia, MD
    Donations to MSI

    I just received an email from MSI that said all donations received between now and Aug 8th (their next meeting) would be given to SAF in support of their suit against MD. So please take this time to help out with a donation.

    Many residents have been hesitant to apply for a permit knowing that they had no chance of getting one and also knowing that one of the questions on most state applications is "Have you ever been denied a permit in another state?". The MSP routinely tells our representatives in Annapolis that the statistics on denied applications is very low and the law, as it currently stands, must be appropriate. Now is the time for everyone to put away their apathy and help ensure that Maryland doesn't become another California :sad20:, but rather a state that respects the rights of its citizens to protect themselves and their families, not just their valuables.
     

    hvymax

    Banned
    BANNED!!!
    Apr 19, 2010
    14,011
    Dentsville District 28
    Just got my SAF beltbuckle/plaque etc package after 3 weeks(Happy they are busy). Hope to see you all at the MSI meeting Sunday I will be joining and signing up to help with the PG and hopefully Chuckles Co Fairs.
     

    press1280

    Ultimate Member
    Jun 11, 2010
    7,878
    WV
    if looking at the standard for what other states do, does it help us that well over a majority of the states are not as strict as MD in terms of Conceal carry permits?? I say that because in the last two SCOTUS cases, references had been made to what is commonly owned (firearms). Can it be argued from the standpoint of the standards commonly used by the majority of states and that they are shall issue??

    You'll see that info in the briefs but I'm not sure if it'll come out in oral arguments or the opinion. Gura usually sticks with the law and precedent. The other side will probably use the "blood in the streets" argument, but may have a problem when it's pointed out that 40+ other states with shall-issue or VT carry don't seem to have that problem.
     

    Kharn

    Ultimate Member
    Mar 9, 2008
    3,578
    Hazzard County
    Actually if you read the law, MD would be shall-issue if the 'good and substantial reason' part (5ii) were cut:
    § 5-306.
    (a) Subject to subsection (b) of this section, the Secretary shall issue a permit within a reasonable time to a
    person who the Secretary finds:
    (1) is an adult;
    (2) (i) has not been convicted of a felony or of a misdemeanor for which a sentence of imprisonment for
    more than 1 year has been imposed; or
    (ii) if convicted of a crime described in item (i) of this item, has been pardoned or has been granted
    relief under 18 U.S.C. § 925(c);
    (3) has not been convicted of a crime involving the possession, use, or distribution of a controlled
    dangerous substance;
    (4) is not presently an alcoholic, addict, or habitual user of a controlled dangerous substance unless the
    habitual use of the controlled dangerous substance is under legitimate medical direction; and
    (5) based on an investigation:
    (i) has not exhibited a propensity for violence or instability that may reasonably render the person's
    possession of a handgun a danger to the person or to another; and
    (ii) has good and substantial reason to wear, carry, or transport a handgun, such as a finding that the
    permit is necessary as a reasonable precaution against apprehended danger.
     

    Patrick

    MSI Executive Member
    Apr 26, 2009
    7,725
    Calvert County
    Actually if you read the law, MD would be shall-issue if the 'good and substantial reason' part (5ii) were cut:

    Yup. Just one measly line.

    If won, this case will shut down the legislature from getting too "creative". It is not asserting that one line is wrong, but that the premise of control is broken. So it'll be tough for the critters to break things down again, assuming we win what we are looking for.
     

    knownalien

    Ultimate Member
    Jan 3, 2010
    1,793
    Glen Burnie, MD.
    § 5-306.
    (a) Subject to subsection (b) of this section, the Secretary shall issue a permit within a reasonable time to a
    person who the Secretary finds:
    (1) is an adult;
    (2) (i) has not been convicted of a felony or of a misdemeanor for which a sentence of imprisonment for
    more than 1 year has been imposed
    ; or
    (ii) if convicted of a crime described in item (i) of this item, has been pardoned or has been granted
    relief under 18 U.S.C. § 925(c);

    that's different verbage than the verbage to own a firearm in MD isn't it? Firearm ownership is based on length of prison sentences that COULD have been imposed and restrictive of those that are more than 2 years. The verbage for the code above mentions "has been imposed." To me that implies that if one was convicted but served no time (say due to a plea bargain) that he had zero time imposed and therefore is cleared to carry. Also, we have here the threshold of only one year as opposed to 2. Interesting.
     
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